T Nation

300lb+


#1

hi all ,
looking forward to my 2 cycle end jan09,my first was 15wk sus250 1000mg,deca 400mg,dia 25mg,(started with lower doses first 6 wks,ended as above).followed by 8 wks pct and nolva.
made excellent gains with very little sides,
my goal is to reach 300lbs ,not to concerned about body fat ,but dont want to loose control of fat level,being cut has never appealed to me,its about size and strength for me.

my question is ,is there any benefit to changing a cycle,i was thinking of running the same again but maybe introducing letrozole.every post i have seen seems to have a different 2nd cycle?

stats
bw 250lbs,18% body fat.
bench 460x6
squat 580x6
dead 600+


#2

Look up the term diminishing returns.


#3

lost?


#4

Your not really giving us much to go on here. How much did you gain? How much did you keep?

I honestly don't think you need that much gear to make gains. I would try 500sust, 500 deca for 12 weeks, then run the test at 250/wk for another 6 weeks. What did your food intake look like on the last cycle?

Monopoly


#5

yes it does look like a lot of gear,i would not recommend those dosages ,but it worked for me ,with no real sides.i had a good solid 16yrs + nat training before start of cycle.
food intake was fairly good high protein intake and low carb,alot from powders ,protein at least 1grm a lb,
my weight was 223 went up to 254 ,today 260 much much smoother.my waist was 38 when i started and is still 38 now,i looked solid for about 6wks after.i am still supprised that i have not lost that much size gained,strength is still good ,but intensity greatly reduced.

bench 460 x 6
squat 560 x 6
dead 600+

i want 2 more cycles in 2009,and hope to end year just over 300,


#6

Your first cycle included deca and high dose test.

There was little reason to do so, you would have made the same gains on just test at a lower dose, and dbol.

But too late for that now, diet is going to be key you want another 40 pounds.

20 pounds a cycle from now on isn't unreasonable

I would take your protien to 2g/lb and greatly increase cals from fat and carbs.


#7

what about introducing letrozole


#8

I would never run dbol and test without an AI.

Letro is easily the most effective AI.

Dosing is tricky and youll need to increase the dose slowly to find your own personal dose.

Go too high and you kill your E and your sex drive and impact your health pretty severely. Estrogen is very important.

AI's are cheap as hell and incredibly useful, of course you should run letro.


#9

I don't think it's THAT much gear, I would just be willing to bet you could make the same amount of gains with a lower dose and better diet. "protein at least 1grm a lb" is IMO really low. I think someone has already advised 2grms/per lb. I would add carbs as well, even if you cycle them on and off. I have never used letro so can't help there. I have gone as high as 1500mg of test with zero anti-e's necessary but alway have adex on hand. Thankfully my sides have been low as well. Keep up posted on how it goes.

Monopoly


#10

thnks all for the advise ,
i will update at start of cycle,looks like i need to concentrate getting diet spot on,and do some more ground work on letro.
thnks again


#11

fyi I would stay away from letro and use arimidex as it's more mild and will get the job done. Some people claim formestane works well to and has the benefit of sending your libido through the roof. Anyone care to comment? BTw I am tired and could def be wrong


#12

Adex is what I generally recommend to people who are new to the AI game.

Its really hard to hurt yourself with adex, it can be done, but its hard.

With letro its REALLY easy to tank your E like a motherfucker, Ive done that before, it sucks, and your dick hates you for a while.

But letro is pretty much the strongest thing out there that people can get.

If you intend to run a cycle that is a little "odd", or if your very gyno prone or already have pubertal gyno, or using a combo of highly risky drugs in the estrogen department, then letro is the security blanket that will buy you peace of mind.


#13

Yeah I'd say that's very true, I am fortunatly not prone to gyno. I actually got cocky with it and figured I just didn't get it at all being that I had run upto 750mg test along with other aas several times and not used an AI over the years.

Just last year I ended up with a little lump on my right nip. Sucks balls and I think it is progestin related as I only notice it with tren, and now that I am off all together can't feel it at all so it's really small. Still never again with not at least using very small "insurance" amount of ai's when there is a potential for enough aromatization to kick off gyno.


#14

I used to think the same, WG, until this cycle. I had screwed up using letrozole before and completely killed my sex drive (I could get hard, I just couldn't get excited about anything) and had elevated liver values post cycle (probably partly due to orals, as well, however).

My current cycle, however, I am using letrozole at .625mg EOD and experiencing near perfect results from it, a lot better than my past experience with arimidex. For some reason, the letrozole, now that I have found my sweet spot, seems to keep my estrogen levels much more stabilized. Even though I agree that arimidex is a good compound, I always seem to fall in and out of the aformentioned "sweet spot," and find myself adjusting my dosage all cycle. From the moment I reached what I felt was just right with my current dosage of letro, I have not had to change a single thing.

As for the OP. You are 250lb, that's bigger than most of the guys on this website. If your body fat % is what you say it is then you obviously have a handle on what you are doing and I will not criticize your choice of compounds or amount used (though I would not have recommended them to begin with, and I'll just bet that your actual BF% is higher than 18%).

If you really want to keep the weight going up, I would think about adding equipoise, which should ramp your appetite up through the roof, and help you to meet your caloric goals, which is where, honestly, most of your gains are going to come from beyond this point. The gear will help most of it become muscle, instead of fat.


#15

Regardless of what I said in my prior post, this is also a good post and I agree with it.

However, when you do figure out how to stay in the pocket using letrozole, it is a fantastic compound.


#16

thanks for advice