T Nation

300+ Obese and Low Test

trying to get my life together for once

-age:28
-height: 6’
-waist: 46"
-weight: 330
-describe body and facial hair: I have always carried all my weight in my stomach and chest area. Ever since I was 14 I have had gynecomastia, which I don’t need to mention how embarrasing that is, but it’s good to know it could have been due to low testosterone, which I don’t doubt I’ve had since puberty. I feel my puberty was delayed and I’ve been late at EVERYTHING my whole life. I sadly do not have much facial hair and never have to shave. I’ve probably got what people would consider 1/4 of a mustache, whcih does not connect in the middle. I can’t grow a full beard, gaotee, or even sideburns.

-describe where you carry fat and how changed: Fat is mainly in my stomach, love handles, chest, and butt. I have very strong legs. My muscle tone is low and I never seemed to build muscle like other men.
-health conditions, symptoms [history]

-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever: None
– real dangers! see this http://propeciahelp.com/overvi
-lab results with ranges:
test: 312
free test: 8.5 (9.5 -26.5)
estraidol: 12.1 (7.6 - 42.6)

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]: Wow, currently I don’t eat healthy, but not terrible by any means. I’m sure I don’t eat enough, but that’s what I am looking to chancge. I do drink a soda a day and I know I need to cut that out. I’ll eat a sandwhich for lunch, a protein bar, carrots, maybe some peanut butter crackers, and some fruit everyday for lunch at work.

Dinner throughout the week consists of steak, chicken, pork steak, lean ground beef, potatoes, some veggies here and there. Some days I may skip dinner, because I am never really terribly hungry and have a low appetite mainly.

I know I need to force myself to eat 4-6 meals a day, but I don’t get the recommended minimum calories I should, which I would think would help lose weight since I have to be at a deficiency (I know that’s not the right way to think and it’s not intentional). I will be working on my diet once I start the test.

-describe training: I just got a gym membership through my job and am planning to do cardio 3x a week and weights twice a week. Next month I will be signing up for boxing classes through a local gym, which I know will keep me interested and active at the same time. I know it will be hard starting out, but I need this for my life.
-testes ache, ever, with a fever: Never

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: I hardly ever have any erections. Morning wood maybe twice a month, maybe.

I started last month by getting some BW done and ended up having test 238 and Free was 7.3 (sorry, I did not get the ranges). The Dr. put me on HCG and an estrogen blocker because of my age to see if I can naturally produce. Since I’ve had this problem since I was in my teens, I’m assuming I didn’t think that was going to work.

So, last week I had more BW done and he is going to start me on 100mg of test a week (2x week 50mg). will this be a good starting dose for me considering my weight? I know Im not in the best of health and have so many of the symptoms of LOW T that’s why I am so excited to resolve things and can’t wait to start feeling the results.

I am continuing to gain more and more knowledge by reading and understanding things and know I have a lot to learn, but please feel free to give any feedback you may have. I’m eager to learn.

(Forgive the typeo’s and inconsistency… trying to type this at work, lol.) Nice to meet you all.

I know some other people may have better replies but honestly you need to look at the psychology of yourself and this situation first, imo.

These reason you mainly got to this situation to begin with is lifestyle habits.

My concern after reading your post is you think by adding test, it will cure all. It should fucking help, A LOT, but you should also aim to work on changing your self image, self expression and lifestyle habits.

It sounds like hippy shit I know, but I have never had an obese or overweight client, and Ive had a few, who immediately went for steroids. Depression and/or other psychological problems and choices put them in that overweight/obese state. Until you correct those problems, youre using a Band-Aid.

Obviously, clean up the fucking diet. And work on it. Don’t jump on a program or start a diet. Start doing small shit.

Wake up and drink water for the first hour. or Ditch soda, completely. etc etc. Its the small, many times over things, that fucked you up in the first place.

The test may help to get rid of depression as well. Look into things that will alter or up your well being. Sitting on your ass, unmotivated to lift and do the rights things, while on test will get you no where. A lot of overweight people don’t take proper steps because they lack the positive brain chemicals to help them get up and get going. Add fish oil, both high in EPA and DHA to clean out inflammation.

id give you more tips but youd have to get through these first.

Good luck.

[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
I know some other people may have better replies but honestly you need to look at the psychology of yourself and this situation first, imo.

These reason you mainly got to this situation to begin with is lifestyle habits.

My concern after reading your post is you think by adding test, it will cure all. It should fucking help, A LOT, but you should also aim to work on changing your self image, self expression and lifestyle habits.

It sounds like hippy shit I know, but I have never had an obese or overweight client, and Ive had a few, who immediately went for steroids. Depression and/or other psychological problems and choices put them in that overweight/obese state. Until you correct those problems, youre using a Band-Aid.

Obviously, clean up the fucking diet. And work on it. Don’t jump on a program or start a diet. Start doing small shit.

Wake up and drink water for the first hour. or Ditch soda, completely. etc etc. Its the small, many times over things, that fucked you up in the first place.

The test may help to get rid of depression as well. Look into things that will alter or up your well being. Sitting on your ass, unmotivated to lift and do the rights things, while on test will get you no where. A lot of overweight people don’t take proper steps because they lack the positive brain chemicals to help them get up and get going. Add fish oil, both high in EPA and DHA to clean out inflammation.

id give you more tips but youd have to get through these first.

Good luck. [/quote]
Hey, points taken and I appreciate it. I agree with you. I always have been the big kid and desired to be like my friends. I never understood why I could eat less than them and be just as active, but end up with gynecomastia and always being the fat guy, so I somewhat quit trying. I have to fight the genetic battle as well, but seems like discovering LOW T (whic I didn’t even consider a problem) that could have been a problem I had never considered addressing that could have been producing so many bad affects, even mentally. I’m going to take what you said to heart and make some strives towards getting things together.
Thanks

You have a lot of reading to do and a lot more blood testing to do. Read through all the stickies at the top of the T Replacement forum. They have little yellow notepads next to the title. New guys sticky, thyroid sticky, blood testing sticky. Low T is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself. Like hips said, adding T to the situation is a band-aid.

This will be a long hard road, but it sounds like you are ready to travel it. Everyone here will help guide you along the way the best they can.

Hey hips… You talk like you think your some fuckn god. How do you know what he does or has tried in his life??

How would you know about what his DNA has for him.

Some people are genetically prone to conditions!!

We all can’t be fuckn perfect so take it easy on the guy FFs…

Whywhywhy… Don’t be hard on yourself dude.

Do you have any idea what’s going on and why your hormones may be out of wack?

I think you may feel better on T but I agree with the band aid statement.

Could you possibly post all the labs you have and if you don’t have them go to your doctors and get them.

A lot of helpful fellers here and Kaynon is one of them and has led you in the right direction.

Good luck my friend.

[quote]iw84aces wrote:
Hey hips… You talk like you think your some fuckn god. How do you know what he does or has tried in his life??

How would you know about what his DNA has for him.

Some people are genetically prone to conditions!!

We all can’t be fuckn perfect so take it easy on the guy FFs…

Whywhywhy… Don’t be hard on yourself dude.

Do you have any idea what’s going on and why your hormones may be out of wack?

I think you may feel better on T but I agree with the band aid statement.

Could you possibly post all the labs you have and if you don’t have them go to your doctors and get them.

A lot of helpful fellers here and Kaynon is one of them and has led you in the right direction.

Good luck my friend.
[/quote]
Thanks, I really appreciate that response. I know there are a lot of things that I have had to fight and it helps to know that my harmones have been out of whack and probably since puberty. I just don’t want to make excuses, you know what I mean? But I have taken some of the guilt off of my shoulders a lot of people just think it’s due to a person being lazy, but there are so many more contributing factors and possibilities why things happen. anyways, I have a pdf from the Labcorp, just have to edit off some information or figure out a way to copy and paste and I’ll get that posted up. I think I have my initial one as well, I’ll need to scan that. I don’t know how some of the people have the numbers all lined up perfectly, that would be too much info to type, lol.

Thanks, I really appreciate that response. I know there are a lot of things that I have had to fight and it helps to know that my harmones have been out of whack and probably since puberty. I just don’t want to make excuses, you know what I mean? But I have taken some of the guilt off of my shoulders a lot of people just think it’s due to a person being lazy, but there are so many more contributing factors and possibilities why things happen. anyways, I have a pdf from the Labcorp, just have to edit off some information or figure out a way to copy and paste and I’ll get that posted up. I think I have my initial one as well, I’ll need to scan that. I don’t know how some of the people have the numbers all lined up perfectly, that would be too much info to type, lol.

[quote]iw84aces wrote:
Hey hips… You talk like you think your some fuckn god. How do you know what he does or has tried in his life??

How would you know about what his DNA has for him.

Some people are genetically prone to conditions!!

We all can’t be fuckn perfect so take it easy on the guy FFs…

Whywhywhy… Don’t be hard on yourself dude.

Do you have any idea what’s going on and why your hormones may be out of wack?

I think you may feel better on T but I agree with the band aid statement.

Could you possibly post all the labs you have and if you don’t have them go to your doctors and get them.

A lot of helpful fellers here and Kaynon is one of them and has led you in the right direction.

Good luck my friend.
[/quote]

Lol it would take you an hour… Now you are being lazy lol

[quote]iw84aces wrote:
Lol it would take you an hour… Now you are being lazy lol[/quote]

Lol, here is my latest BW hope it’s readable Let me know if not.

WBC 9.4 x10E3/uL 4.0 â?? 10.5 01
RBC 5.16 x10E6/uL 4.14 â?? 5.80 01
Hemoglobin 13.7 g/dL 12.6 â?? 17.7 01
Hematocrit 42.6 % 37.5 â?? 51.0 01
MCV 83 fL 79 â?? 97 01
MCH 26.6 pg 26.6 â?? 33.0 01
MCHC 32.2 g/dL 31.5 â?? 35.7 01
RDW 15.1 % 12.3 â?? 15.4 01
Platelets 248 x10E3/uL 140 â?? 415 01
Neutrophils 44 % 40 â?? 74 01
Lymphs 43 % 14 â?? 46 01
Monocytes 9 % 4 â?? 13 01
Eos 4 % 0 â?? 7 01
Basos 0 % 0 â?? 3 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 4.1 x10E3/uL 1.8 â?? 7.8 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 4.1 x10E3/uL 0.7 â?? 4.5 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.8 x10E3/uL 0.1 â?? 1.0 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.4 x10E3/uL 0.0 â?? 0.4 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 â?? 0.2 01
Immature Granulocytes 0 % 0 â?? 2 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 â?? 0.1 01
SPACE
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 88 mg/dL 65 â?? 99 01
BUN 16 mg/dL 6 â?? 20 01
Creatinine, Serum 1.09 mg/dL 0.76 â?? 1.27 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 93 mL/min/1.73 >59
eGFR If Africn Am 107 mL/min/1.73 >59
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 15 8 â?? 19
Sodium, Serum 143 mmol/L 134 â?? 144 01
Potassium, Serum 4.1 mmol/L 3.5 â?? 5.2 01Chloride, Serum 104 mmol/L 97 â?? 108 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 mmol/L 19 â?? 28 01
Calcium, Serum 9.4 mg/dL 8.7 â?? 10.2 01
Protein, Total, Serum 7.1 g/dL 6.0 â?? 8.5 01
Albumin, Serum 4.2 g/dL 3.5 â?? 5.5 01
Globulin, Total 2.9 g/dL 1.5 â?? 4.5
A/G Ratio 1.4 1.1 â?? 2.5
Bilirubin, Total 0.3 mg/dL 0.0 â?? 1.2 01
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 76 IU/L 25 â?? 150 01
Please note reference interval change
AST (SGOT) 19 IU/L 0 â?? 40 01
ALT (SGPT) 22 IU/L 0 â?? 44 01
SPACE
Testosterone,Free and Total
Testosterone, Serum 312 Low ng/dL 348 â?? 1197 01
Free Testosterone(Direct) 8.5 Low pg/mL 9.3 â?? 26.5 02
SPACE
Estradiol 12.1 pg/mL 7.6 â?? 42.6 01

Ok so is it possible for you to get more labs?

[quote]iw84aces wrote:
Ok so is it possible for you to get more labs?
[/quote]
Is that not what needs to be seen? What am I missing? I’ve got one from about 6 weeks ago as well and the only thing it has different is a lipid panel, leutinizing harmonies, and prostate specific ag. Are those important to see if so I’ll have to figure a way to get those posted if you think I need to.

Lh
Fsh
Cholesterol
Dhea-s
Tsh
Ft3
Ft4
Prolactin

Post waking and afternoon oral temps

iw84: Hey amigo, I believe you incorrectly read into my tone and post. If I wanted to be negative and pick on the gent I would have said a 1000 other things. With most people in this situation you cannot give them a hug and talk to them like a 4 year old. Points need to get across, and they need to be motivated towards looking into other areas.

God?? Jesus no. I deal have dealt with a lot of clients and in the past 3 years in particular a lot of clients with this very similar issue, so I do have past experience.

A lot of people have several issues pointing towards a numerical drop on paper to “Low T.” So what they used to do is argue with a Dr. until they coughed up a prescription. Now a lot of Dr. will hand em over (based on relating conditions of course). How do I know? I went through this same process.

Walked in with T in the 200’s and E in upper 40’s…My Dr, the Endo, the Uro all said “nothing is wrong with you.” That was a severally hard pill to swallow as I knew something was wrong with me. So there underwent a 5 year study into nutrition, hormones, body chem, genetics, etc.

So here we are now: What I see in a lot of people is a desire to have an outside substance fix an internal default. Why posted that he had “tried” diets but knows he doesn’t eat right and that there are several other lifestyle factors not falling into place but that “he needs to work on.” To me, this sounds familiar to the clients I have had that were unsuccessful because they didn’t want to invest positive energies into their lives but instead, like a lapban or other, wanted a product to do the work for them.

As I stated, extra T should help him feel better but it is not an end-all-be-all to his problem. He needs to look at these other factors to help not only the T work better, bring him better results over all through life style changes but also that the corresponding steps will lead to a better condition of life.

study genetics, DNA sequencing and physics/ quantum physics and get back to me about what it does or doesn’t do, can or can be manipulated to do. If you ask people who blame genetics why? They hold that over themselves as a solid ceiling. This because of this, its a logical fallacy. I will give you case after case of people moving beyond there genetics. Like when you hear and alcoholic say “well my dad was a drunk so its because of him.” Not always the case.

Perfect and FFs, got it, Im not just a dude posting on a forum, outside of this Im also a Strength and Conditioning Coach, Nutritionist and Biosignature Modulation Practitioner who runs two businesses trying to help people achieve happier and healthier lives. Everyday, I deal with these subjects. Oh! And myself :wink:

You asked a very good question: Why, whywhywhy, are your hormones out of whack?? This is something I asked myself as well. I was recommended to take some chemical shit via this website…it didn’t turn out well…oh and it didn’t help.

I had to find lifestyle factors, diet, what types of meat, what supps was I taking, where was my sleep and stress at?? Were hormones being manipulated or stolen, like in the case of gyno, where T is stolen and converted into E by aromatization. Look into killing all of that first before just adding T. Have you tried; DIM, Resveratrol, SBS, Flaxseed, Zinc levels, Magnesium levels?? etc etc, Have you checked all other options before just believing that you need T. Have you pulled out bulshit foods? Have you taken fibers to pull out estrogens from the body? Losing Body fat? Lifting heavier? I never called you lazy, nor did I hint at it, it tried to suggest other avenues. And then iw84 called you lazy :wink: Because you were acting lazy :wink:

Remember, I come on these boards and offer free advice based off my experience and knowledge in an effort to help. Don’t like the tone, don’t read the message.

We need to see the LH and FSH if you have it. This determines if you are primary or secondary hypogonadism. You probably don’t have the others needed yet. Doctors often overlook or simply disregard adrenal fatigue or thyroid issues and don’t order the tests unless specifically requested by the patient, unless you see an anti-aging doctor, which is really expensive.

On a supportive note, I think I can speak for everyone on this board when I say that in the beginning we ALL thought that having low testosterone, and supplementing WITH testosterone, would fix all of our problems. I know I did. For me, it took a few months to realize that I had other things going on. That’s what led me to this site. It’s not your fault for thinking that. Mainstream media and advertisements make us think that low T is the problem; it’s not. It’s a symptom of a problem.

So getting all the labs we suggest on here will allow us to look at them and see what else you have going on. Is your latest bloodwork after hCG mono therapy? If so, what was the dosage?

If you can take your vial home, try self-injecting sub-cutaneously. It’s much less invasive than IM, if that’s what you were planning to do. I use 25gauge 5/8 inch syringes. I’ve found it’s much more time efficient than 29gauge.

[quote]Kaynon311 wrote:
We need to see the LH and FSH if you have it. This determines if you are primary or secondary hypogonadism. You probably don’t have the others needed yet. Doctors often overlook or simply disregard adrenal fatigue or thyroid issues and don’t order the tests unless specifically requested by the patient, unless you see an anti-aging doctor, which is really expensive.

On a supportive note, I think I can speak for everyone on this board when I say that in the beginning we ALL thought that having low testosterone, and supplementing WITH testosterone, would fix all of our problems. I know I did. For me, it took a few months to realize that I had other things going on. That’s what led me to this site. It’s not your fault for thinking that. Mainstream media and advertisements make us think that low T is the problem; it’s not. It’s a symptom of a problem.

So getting all the labs we suggest on here will allow us to look at them and see what else you have going on. Is your latest bloodwork after hCG mono therapy? If so, what was the dosage?

If you can take your vial home, try self-injecting sub-cutaneously. It’s much less invasive than IM, if that’s what you were planning to do. I use 25gauge 5/8 inch syringes. I’ve found it’s much more time efficient than 29gauge.

[/quote]
Thanks for the heads up.
I think I should also add the biggest benefits I was looking forward to with try was better mental clarity that helps with depression and the mental fog, increase in libido, and an increase in energy. I wasn’t looking for it to be a magic fat loss pill. The added physical benefit is extra and I want to capitalize on whatever that may be. So, didn’t want you guys to have the wrong idea with my expectations. I have read a lot of success stories and truly feel those area will in turn help me with my physical condition. I have already started working out without trt being the focus on why. I was focusing mainly on cardio for fat loss, but was told I should actually focus on weights since that will help burn more fat over time while resting and throughout the day. I figured the trt medication will help with the energy in the gym, but know fat loss is is going to be up to the old scientificcally proven methods of counting calories and getting enough activity in. Just wanted to clear that up. Looking like most of you guys that are on cycles and ripped and sculpted is more like a dream, lol. I never really had those goals although I would love it. I have to face one thing at a time first. First thing is just getting on a regular regimen and a good diet. After I lose some fat maybe in a year or 2 since I’ve got a ways to go then I’ll worry about trying to look a certain way. My weight affects my self confidence, social life, and so much more. So fixing that is priority number one and I know I have a long long way to go. I don’t want to rush anything and burn out. So, slow and steady, but I am looking forward to those benefits of trt and having a regular testosterone level, that I can’t lie about.

[quote]Kaynon311 wrote:
We need to see the LH and FSH if you have it. This determines if you are primary or secondary hypogonadism. You probably don’t have the others needed yet. Doctors often overlook or simply disregard adrenal fatigue or thyroid issues and don’t order the tests unless specifically requested by the patient, unless you see an anti-aging doctor, which is really expensive.

On a supportive note, I think I can speak for everyone on this board when I say that in the beginning we ALL thought that having low testosterone, and supplementing WITH testosterone, would fix all of our problems. I know I did. For me, it took a few months to realize that I had other things going on. That’s what led me to this site. It’s not your fault for thinking that. Mainstream media and advertisements make us think that low T is the problem; it’s not. It’s a symptom of a problem.

So getting all the labs we suggest on here will allow us to look at them and see what else you have going on. Is your latest bloodwork after hCG mono therapy? If so, what was the dosage?

If you can take your vial home, try self-injecting sub-cutaneously. It’s much less invasive than IM, if that’s what you were planning to do. I use 25gauge 5/8 inch syringes. I’ve found it’s much more time efficient than 29gauge.

[/quote]
Also, those labs will have to wait for another 6-8 weeks I suppose. I wish I had those records to give to you guys, but that’s all they tested me for.

One of the things I have learned on this journey is that it takes a commitment to learning and accepting out faults. Lets face we are a nation who eats our way into our health problems myself included. Make a commitment to yourself that you will find a way to get where you want to be. T will help in those endeavors but get all the lab work done before you start taking supplements or T you need a Baseline to compare to. Clean up you diet and add on exercise as best you can you will be surprised how much these will help you hormones. I found it helpful to create an excel spreadsheet with all my labs docs love it too.

The guys posting previously have all steared you in a direction that will help. But I can tell you from personal experience I felt worse I first started T and it has been nearly a year since I started. I gained nearly 20 lbs is thx weeks immediately after starting as I thought it was the magic wand. Once I cleaned up the diet things started to come together. Be patient and consistent. Good luck in you journey.