T Nation

30 Reps


so i just read this article(http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/how_to_build_any_muscle_group) and it seems like a really interesting and new way to train. My question is if I can use this program for all my workouts. back legs tri bi shoulders etc. Please give specific reasons to why or why not, im new here so every detail is important.


you could do that.... or you could do what bodybuilders have been doing (SUCCESSFULLY) for decades :wink:


To be fair Chad suggested a different approach for quads and delts. But that's not the main point I'd like to make.

This 30 rep scheme will lead toward gains of some kind because it involves progression and resistance, but because this is the bodybuilding portion of the training forum I must inform you that for the purposes of bodybuilding this method has a very good likelihood of breaking down as you become more advanced. Successful bodybuilders typically work at lower intensities (%1RM) and with greater volume.

You run a greater risk of injury by lifting heavy all the time, a risk that isn't necessary to reap the greatest results in terms of size. You'll also need to split, specialize, and isolate (concepts that Chad has spent most of his career opposed to) in order to access the greatest gains in bodybuilding.

If you're a rank beginner this program will work as well as any other. If you want a hybrid approach that leans more toward strength then give it a go. Assuming that you just want to look good as fast as possible, then give it a miss.



Here's your answer op


I see a lot of these kind of quotes and am curious what exactly one thinks is the style "bodybuilders have been doing (SUCCESSFULLY) for decades is" and whether it's truly as uniform as people make it out to be. And surprisingly, Brick's "Bodybuilding Bible" style of the flat pyramid ramp up to top set is not, and I paraphrase, "used by all the top amateurs, natural competitors, pros, real bodybuilders, blah blah blah". Far from it. There's variation in terms of straight sets, to-failure vs. shy of failure, # of work sets, frequency, etc. all across the board.

Muscle, smoke, mirrors gives a nice historical/expansive perspective. Drugs can also obfuscate training for an otherwise natural competitor.

I don't mean to attack with this post but even using this forum as a sample size, truly look at the physiques of the members who are bodybuilding "worthy", or more realistically speaking, look as lean/muscular/aesthetic as you'd like to be in real life. Stu, synergy, paragon, bhwhitwell, CT, modok all make ample use of "non-traditional" methods. Paragon went so far as to say the "traditional" bodybuilding style didn't work very well for him. Synergy, similiary, said he got the best gains training for performance/explosively (i.e. multiple sets of lower reps, not too different from the '30 rep' method CW talks about).

I'm sure there are many posters lurking who have great physiques doing "traditional" bodybuilding, whatevrer that may be, but I've seen several that just look chunky. I'm sure that's a big function of diet as well but it'd be nice to hear how actual members who have competed in bodybuilding and/or have the leanness/size to compete NOW (not as in give me 5 years so I can cut lol) comment on how exactly they're training. I imagine you'd find quite a diversity of routines/philosophies.


Yeah, actually empirical evidence shows that if you have your total volume high you can build a shit-ton of muscle using low reps.


bodybuilders have been low reps as well as high reps for growth. i never implied they didnt....

all the posters you mentioned, maybe not CT and Synergy, would fall into a "traditional" body building routine... traditional doesnt need to mean doing 3x12 for every exercise, 1 day per week blah blah blah.

if i remember correctly, paragon said high reps didnt work for him


Basic rule of weight training / bodybuilding: everything works for a period of time, some programs work better for some people than others. How you train is a choice that is effected by many factors including age, work schedule, family, recovery ability. When I was younger (I'm 46) I felt that I needed 2 hours to train and at least 12 sets per bodypart. As you age, and gain expierence you become more efficient in your training and you can effectively train a bodypart with 3 to 4 sets, provided you have the ability to train hard and deal with the physical discomfort that comes with it. You can talk programs, supplements and schedules until you are blue in the face but if you can't or won't do the hard work you won't grow.