T Nation

2wk Test Prop/Dbol Cycle Before 12wk Test E


#1

Hi folks, noob here:

6"0, 190 lbs, 11% bf, 23
Training: powerlifting with accessory MWF and body building TThSun. A lot of hiit and steady state cardio everyday as I am just finishing a cut. Lost 25 lbs in the last 7 months and started reverse dieting last week after being at 2100 calories for 2 weeks.

Food: roughly 225 p 200-250 c 30-50 f at 2300 cals. Fiber between 30-50 g

Original plan was to do my first cycle for 12 weeks at 400 mg of test e with 200 mg hucog (hcg) 24 our before every pin starting day 7. Pct 40/40/20/20 Nolva 2 weeks after last pin. Plan to start mid September due to certain training opportunities that line up with my goals. Asin on hand Ai. Start at 12.5 if I notice anything.

However, I am a little fed up with eating so little and feel like I won't stay this lean as I reverse diet till mid September for my cycle just because my body probably wants to go back to being fat and maintain homeostasis. Workouts have no more intensity to lift heavy but can handle submaximal work better. Eating this little is making me the opposite of a happy camper and it is running into my everyday interactions with people.

I was given the idea of doing a short 2 week cycle to up calories quickly and keep me sane and lean going into September.

2 week cycle would probably look like:

Day 1-10 test prop 100 mg ED
Day 1-14 dbol 40-50 mg split morning and night
Pct: Nolva day 15 at 120 and day 16-28 at 20 mg per day

Nolva on hand incase I notice itchy nips and take 20 mg if I do.

2 to 3 weeks off before I start the 12 weeker at 400mg test e

Concerns:

1) how many calories can I really add and keep post 2 weeker? How many during the 12 weeker?

2) not knowing how I react to aas and running a cycle is pretty stupid but with the 2 weeker does it matter?

3) keep low fat diet through both cycles and try to control when I add calories? 200-500 per week and assess how it goes? Probably start with 500 on the 2 weeker and 200 on the 12 weeker?

4) anything you see that I don't see. Please try to be constructive so we can all learn.

5) going to use 28 gauge slin pins backloaded

6) drop steady state and drop hiit on powerlifting days when on cycle immediately and then introduce them back in post cycle as needed instead of dropping cals after the 2 weeker.

I'm not too worried about getting huge and swole. Mostly staying lean and eating like a monster.

Don't know much, so experienced help would be great or even another perspective at looking at this.


First Cycle - Test Prop Only
#2

It would be nice to find tren 200 test e 250 me at 150. Mixed


#3

2 week cycles advice?


#4

Decided that I need to pick either length and go with it. From what ive been reading about short cycles, it sounds better to me to avoid sides.

New plan: 2 weeks on/2weeks off x3 8 weeks off 2weeks on/ many weeks off

Day 1-10: test prop 100mg ED
Day 1-14: Var 50mg ED

Day 15: Nolva 120mg
Day 16-28: Nolva 20mg

Day 29-39: test prop 100 mg ED
Day 29-43: Dbol 50mg ED

Day 44-58: same as above

Day 59-69: test prop 100 mg ED
Day 59-73: Dbol 50mg ED

Day 74-88: same as above followed by 6 weeks off.

last 2 week cycle: tren 50-100mg ED for 10 days and Dbol 50 mg. followed by same PCT and many months off.

Asin on hand and HCG (hucog).

Calories will go up 500 first week and assess day by day to get a better idea how much to add. Add calories every week while on and maintain while off.

Since I am at the end of a cut, once I start day 1 I will tae out all steady state cardio and leave hiit for after workouts on T/Thurs/Sun.
Put it back in if needed on the off weeks or increase hiit.

Powerlifting will be based on daily rep maxes followed by working sets and dynamic effort work. Will add 2 sets and go heavier on accesorry on weeks on and drop back down on weeks off by try to go just as heavy.

Body building on off days will be heavier with extra set for larger muscle groups and 2 extra sets for smaller muscle groups while on and drop the number of sets back down while off.

The last 2 weeker will be high volume push pull leg split per day

Bill Roberts, if you are out there, please help me sir.


#5

how slowly are you adding your calories back in? are you currently taking creatine?

^it might be easier to speed up your “reverse diet” and toss in some creatine for the time being, and do the cycle you planned.

you might want to drop your training volume a bit, as well. that’a a lot of stuff for a “clean” athlete…


#6

Made the first addition of 200 cals and dropped to 188 last week.

Issue is I’ve been dieting so long and now it’s hard to keep going. Cheated 3 times within that week the first being 7000 plus calories and the other 2 cheats I accounted for to vers he out better.

The whole point of this diet was to get lean so I reduce sides when on but now goals have changed to use the cycle to get eating again sooner and put on some lbm as I do that.

The volume I would drop but at the risk of not staying lean for cycle.

If I chose the longer one I have to wait till Mid September to start. The 2 weeker I can start within a week.

Couple of my experienced friends think that a longer cycle is the way to go but after reading about all the proposed benefits of a 2 week cycle, I’m starting to think that they are way better.

What’s the point of running test only for a longer cycle just to find out how I react to it when I can avoid sides on a 2 weeker. If I do have sides on either I’ll still have to deal with it with an Ai not matter if it were 12 weeks or 2 weeks. And as my first cycle I would probably make better gains on a 2 weeker before running a longer cycle as opposed to a 2 weeker after running a longer cycle.

Trying to find reasons why people are so adamant about running a 10-12 week test only cycle as first cycle.

Shouldn’t the cycle be based on goals and meeting those goals?

The creatine is a great idea. I might give that a try if I have to wait till mid September. Thank you.


#7

Even considering 6 weeks of test prop only in order to meet the middle ground of test only, short cycle and starting ASAP while allowing me to run a 2 weeker in December.

100-125 eod for 6 weeks


#8

[quote]Dr.P wrote:
Made the first addition of 200 cals and dropped to 188 last week.

Issue is I’ve been dieting so long and now it’s hard to keep going. Cheated 3 times within that week the first being 7000 plus calories and the other 2 cheats I accounted for to vers he out better.

The whole point of this diet was to get lean so I reduce sides when on but now goals have changed to use the cycle to get eating again sooner and put on some lbm as I do that.

The volume I would drop but at the risk of not staying lean for cycle.

If I chose the longer one I have to wait till Mid September to start. The 2 weeker I can start within a week.

Couple of my experienced friends think that a longer cycle is the way to go but after reading about all the proposed benefits of a 2 week cycle, I’m starting to think that they are way better.

What’s the point of running test only for a longer cycle just to find out how I react to it when I can avoid sides on a 2 weeker. If I do have sides on either I’ll still have to deal with it with an Ai not matter if it were 12 weeks or 2 weeks. And as my first cycle I would probably make better gains on a 2 weeker before running a longer cycle as opposed to a 2 weeker after running a longer cycle.

Trying to find reasons why people are so adamant about running a 10-12 week test only cycle as first cycle.

Shouldn’t the cycle be based on goals and meeting those goals?

The creatine is a great idea. I might give that a try if I have to wait till mid September. Thank you.[/quote]

if you’re having binges where you’re blowing your diet that bad, you might as well go back up to maintenance calories now.

you need to get that straight before you worry about a cycle… and a 2 week cycle is simply too brief to do much for most people.

you’re identifying issues related to over training and long term diet struggles that you’re trying to fix with androgens…

a 6 week cycle isn’t a bad idea, but again, you need to iron all these other things out first.


#9

You are very right.

I am up now to 2500 and going to see how it goes. Should be able to control and not binge.

If the plan was to do aas anyway, might as well do them now when I can take advantage of them to raise calories a little faster while lean. Avoid binging and avoid getting to maintenance at a high bf%.

I have decided on the 6 week test prop cycle as it matches my goals and time line and conventional test only first cycle.

Plan is 70mg ED with HCG at 250mg during cycle. Nolva for PCT.

Need to figure out semantics on when to dose and how to run the nolva.

Shorter cycle to avoid sides, give me enough time to recover for maybe doing a 2 weeker in December and taking advantage of my reverse diet.

Will make a log with pics.