T Nation

2on/4off - clomid, nolvadex etc

Any of you guys that have used this regime (or Mr Roberts as well!); did you use clomid or nolvadex? when and how much etc. this is the final bit of info i need before giving it a try! thanks.

Both in practical bodybuilding and medically, Clomid has proven superior to Nolvadex at increasing LH and testosterone, though Nolvadex does also work somewhat for that.

It’s not really clear why there’s a difference, since both are very similar drugs working at the same receptors in the same way. It’s possible that Clomid crosses into the brain better due to being more “lipophilic” – that’s the only explanation I can think of (haven’t seen any attempted explanation in the literature.)

toofar: What AS are you planning to use on your cycle and at what dosage?

mike - day 1: 750mg test enanthate
day 2,4,6,8,10: 100mg test prop + 50mg winstrol
wanted to put some primo in but not sure where! also have both winsnstrol and d-bol orals available.
clomid, hcg and nolvadex all available too. thanks.

Mike, actually that amount of test enanthate, by itself, is about as far as you can push it without being too suppressive into week 3. So add in all your other stuff, and you definitely are suppressed in week 3 too. Recovery wouldn’t begin till probably around week 4, and would be somewhat slower than you get with 2 on / 4 off. So if you have the propionate, I’d just omit the enanthate, and start out with 300-600 mg of propionate on day 1, then follow up with 100-150 mg/day (less could be used also.)

If you have both Winstrol orals and injectable, might as well use the injectable during the first week of the cycle, then use orals second week and also optionally in the mornings of 1-3 of your off weeks.

Certainly you can add the Dianabol as well – for fast results, yet not wasteful and overkill, just keep the total steroids at about 1 gram per week, counting the regular daily dosage (don’t count the loading on day 1 as being extra because it isn’t extra, it’s just “simulating” what you “would” have had in your system if you’d been taking your daily dose for a while already.)

If you use aromatizing drugs that convert to estrogen like testosterone or Dianabol, I’d use Clomid (50 mg/day, load with 300 mg divided in 6 doses on first day) or Nolvadex (20 mg/day, load with 80 mg) for antigyno. For faster recovery in week 3, I’d use the Clomid, same dose as above, and would not use Nolvadex.

Mike, actually that amount of test enanthate, by itself, is about as far as you can push it without being too suppressive into week 3. So add in all your other stuff, and you definitely are suppressed in week 3 too. Recovery wouldn’t begin till probably around week 4, and would be somewhat slower than you get with 2 on / 4 off. So if you have the propionate, I’d just omit the enanthate, and start out with 300-600 mg of propionate on day 1, then follow up with 100-150 mg/day (less could be used also.)

If you have both Winstrol orals and injectable, might as well use the injectable during the first week of the cycle, then use orals second week and also optionally in the mornings of 1-3 of your off weeks.

Certainly you can add the Dianabol as well – for fast results, yet not wasteful and overkill, just keep the total steroids at about 1 gram per week, counting the regular daily dosage (don’t count the loading on day 1 as being extra because it isn’t extra, it’s just “simulating” what you “would” have had in your system if you’d been taking your daily dose for a while already.)

If you use aromatizing drugs that convert to estrogen like testosterone or Dianabol, I’d use Clomid (50 mg/day, load with 300 mg divided in 6 doses on first day) or Nolvadex (20 mg/day, load with 80 mg) for antigyno. For faster recovery in week 3, I’d use the Clomid, same dose as above, and would not use Nolvadex.

Thank you Mr Roberts. so i should just skip the Enanthate completely? I was going to use it to get the weekly mg dosage up as a lot of prop is painful! could i put some primo into the stack instead?

So at 750mg test enanthate on day 1 only, can one still use Androsol OR dianabol with the test for the 2 week duration? (too suppressive?) or does it have to be just the 750mg of test. would it be at all beneficial to drop the test to 500mg and add in androsol or dianabol then?

When using the 750 mg of Sustanon on day 1, you can add in anything else that isn’t going to be hanging around in week 3. So you can add in orals, or Androsol.