T Nation

2nd Pull...

Where does the 2nd pull for both the clean and snatch begin?

thanks,
beef

I am not much on Oly lifts, but I am almost certain it is around the knees.

I have always started it close mid or upper third of the thigh. I tend to pull slow off the ground, and then violently triple extend and shrug mid thigh. Some people will bump or brush the thighs, I have never had luck doing this. The bar seems to loose to much speed.


The second pull begins after the bar passes your knees. As far as the thigh brush goes, it will be higher up on your thighs (almost to your crotch…above it if you are an elite weightlifter) on the snatch because of the wide grip on the bar.

Look for some photos on the web of weightlifters lifting and you will see what I mean. Like this one…

The first pull is from the floor to just above the knees; the role of that phase is break down the bar’s initial inertia and (most of all) to place it into an optimal biomechanical position for the second pull.

As the bar passes the knees there is a second (very fast) phase called the double knee bend in which there is a simultaneous straingthening of the torso and a rebending of the knees (to kinda “scoop” them under the bar). This is to allow the quads to be able to contribute more importantly during the second pull and to get the bar closer to the combined center of gravity of the body and bar complex.

Immediately following the DNB, there is the second pull.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
The first pull is from the floor to just above the knees; the role of that phase is break down the bar’s initial inertia and (most of all) to place it into an optimal biomechanical position for the second pull.

As the bar passes the knees there is a second (very fast) phase called the double knee bend in which there is a simultaneous straingthening of the torso and a rebending of the knees (to kinda “scoop” them under the bar). This is to allow the quads to be able to contribute more importantly during the second pull and to get the bar closer to the combined center of gravity of the body and bar complex.

Immediately following the DNB, there is the second pull.[/quote]

CT,

I’ve always been a bit confused about the DNB. Is it a movement that has to be taught or does the body do it “naturally” as a means of getting the weight overhead. It just seems strange that after pulling the bar from the floor you would want to keep accelerating until the second pull. By putting in a rebending of the knees it would seem to me that I would be stopping the upward momentum of the bar.

I’ve only just been getting into some of the oly lifts and have been concentrating on mostly straightening the knees and keeping the same angle for between the torso and hips during the first pull and then when the bar gets above the knees fully extending the body and shrugging violently. Is this the correct technique? How would I go about training the DNB?

Thanks for your help,

Ben

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

As the bar passes the knees there is a second (very fast) phase called the double knee bend in which there is a simultaneous [/quote]straingthening [quote]of the torso and a rebending of the knees (to kinda “scoop” them under the bar). [/quote]

Did you mean straightening the torso?
This is something I have never really understood. How do you bend the knees whilst keeping the bar moving upwards?

I have been slowly bring the bar up to knee height and then simultaneously exploding through with the hips, whilst shrugging and pushing off the toes. I think I am missing something here. Are there any video or picture links that shows the correct breakdown of movements?

thanks,

scrooge

When you try to pull the bar up and back (instead of straight up) and focus on full hips and lower back extension the DNB pretty much occur naturally.

Dammit bg100,

I just finished my post and was taken back to discover you have just asked the same question.

Should I send my questions to you from now on so you can post them for me?

Thanks CT,

I have been pulling straight up, not up and back.

I will give it a go.

[quote]scrooge wrote:
Thanks CT,

I have been pulling straight up, not up and back.

I will give it a go.[/quote]

Dan John gives some pretty good tip on learning the proper “modern” lifting technique. The best one is to pull with the weight on the heel all the time, focusing on pushing the hips as far back as possible. He even recommend lifting with the front of your foot on a small plate (5-10lbs) or a wooden plank.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
When you try to pull the bar up and back (instead of straight up) and focus on full hips and lower back extension the DNB pretty much occur naturally.[/quote]

Thanks CT, I sort of had an idea that this is what happens, I just needed it confirmed.

I’ve also read the Dan John articles that you mentioned. The “bow and arrow” philosophy works well, and I found that the simple act of briefly “throwing” my chin to the ceiling whilst shrugging really makes the bar fly up. I’m just glad that I got this tip when beginning the oly lifts and not a year or so into using another technique which I would have to unlearn and start over again.

[quote]scrooge wrote:
Dammit bg100,

I just finished my post and was taken back to discover you have just asked the same question.

Should I send my questions to you from now on so you can post them for me?[/quote]

Seems like us Aussies have a bit of ESP going on, we are thinking alike at the same time, LOL!

I posted it in the wrong thread…

Coach Thib,

I’d like your advice on Olympic lifts and their variations.

Primarily, I’ve focussed on Hang Cleans and Push Presses over the last year or so as my main Oly movement for power and speed. I train using the Westside template and I usually incorporate Hang Cleans on DE Leg days.

My strength (and numbers) have gone up in Hang Clean but I see very little translation to Power Cleans. It seems like I’m just not comfortable with the full range movement.

So, here are my two questions:

  • In terms of speed and power at the amateur level, is there significant difference in the returns when doing hang cleans or power cleans
  • Secondly, how can I work on improving my form/motion to get better at Power Cleans. Do you recommend something like starting with the bar and stopping just before the second pull?

I’ll appreciate your advice.

Gary

[quote]chints wrote:
I posted it in the wrong thread…

Coach Thib,

I’d like your advice on Olympic lifts and their variations.

Primarily, I’ve focussed on Hang Cleans and Push Presses over the last year or so as my main Oly movement for power and speed. I train using the Westside template and I usually incorporate Hang Cleans on DE Leg days.

My strength (and numbers) have gone up in Hang Clean but I see very little translation to Power Cleans. It seems like I’m just not comfortable with the full range movement.

So, here are my two questions:

  • In terms of speed and power at the amateur level, is there significant difference in the returns when doing hang cleans or power cleans
  • Secondly, how can I work on improving my form/motion to get better at Power Cleans. Do you recommend something like starting with the bar and stopping just before the second pull?

I’ll appreciate your advice.

Gary[/quote]

I did answer it in my “new pics” thread.