T Nation

2nd Cycle - Yikes

I wasn’t planning on doing a second cycle so soon, I just finished my PCT, but there’s a competition coming up in May that I want to do, so I’m just gonna start at the beginning of February. Which means after a 20 week cycle, I will have had 3.5 months off including PCT time. State records in RPS are within reach in my weight class…

I’m currently 92kg (gained a few pounds last week) and about 16% bodyfat. I would like to not gain more than 5kgs so making 90kg is manageable.

The most major issue I had last cycle was PIP. I would like to use only long esters to keep pinning to a minimum. I also think high e2 was making me lethargic, but I can’t be bothered with an AI after enjoying an entire cycle without one, so I would like to keep test on the lower side. I was thinking something like:

Weeks 1 - 16: Test E 300mg/wk
Weeks 3 - 14: Tren E 300mg/wk
Weeks 9 - 14: Dbol 20mg/day
Weeks 11 - 16: HCG 1000iu 3x week

Ok, I know it’s a “stupid” second cycle, but I would really like to break these records, and I would feel like shit if I came within 10-20lbs of them and regretted not taking something “extra.” Ok, not shit, I’d still be proud of myself, but you know what I mean. Aside from deca (if I lose my dick, I’d rather it be from tren than deca), could anybody recommend something different? It’s already occurred to me that doing just test might be a success, but this is for hypothetical discussion.

In case anyone is interested, my first cycle was 20 weeks long and was mostly test cyp 600mg/wk. However, for 4 weeks leading up to the meet I did in week 16, I yeeted, as @unreal24278 would say, and I bumped the test up to 700mg, added 30mg anavar ED, 300mg mast prop week, and, ::sigh:: for the 2 weeks before the meet I also added tren ace at 265mg/week, or ~37.5mg/day and like an extra 25mg of test and mast prop (it was in a blend with the tren). Let me just say that I was mostly resting the 2 weeks before the meet, so I don’t know how the Tren really affected me and it was totally pointless, but injecting ED was absolutely miserable and I will never do an ED or EOD injection schedule for anything ever again. I must use long esters only. The last 4 of my cycle I weeks I was injecting 150mg TPP only EOD and the swelling was just as bad if not worse and even more frequent.

Aside from that bullshit, I experienced no side effects (other than limited sleep which occurred throughout the entire cycle). I never got an unexpected pimple anywhere. Frankly, I felt exactly the same on all that shit as I did on just the test. But I also have felt mostly the same since stopping test and all throughout PCT. If anything, I feel more motivated towards other things instead of only the gym now, and I think this is because my estrogen isn’t high anymore.

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Some guys just really don’t react well to Tren

Depends on the symptoms/extent the systemic toxicity from the compound effects you. There are a few categories here

  • those who are only mildly-moderately affected (zeek comes to mind)
  • those who are moderately to severely affected, but don’t feel all that off and/or become too jaded and/or judgement is impaired to the extent where they’ll come up with excuses to continue (Cassidy Campbell, the train to look good naked guy has gone over the way Tren altered his demeanour, and how it took actually coming off to realise what am asshat he was on the compound). This isn’t unique with Tren, it’s just far more common with Tren comparative to other compounds.
  • those who are legitimately don’t appear to be affected at all (unicorns, but they do exist)
  • those who can’t handle any amount no matter what

I’m at the airport right now enjoying a fat pint as we speak!!! (Aaaaaaaaaaa unreal24278 is consuming an alcoholic beverage)… systemic damage is extreme


You off to amsterdam

No, London first (staying with family at that point)

I’ll see if I can see you in Amsterdam. I’m with family at the time so if I can manage to sneak away (which would be a totally dick move, but I will try) I’ll shoot you a message

Otherwise perhaps I can go there solo for a day trip to meet up with you… if I don’t run out of money, my budget is very tight and my activities are rigorously planned at this point

If I can’t see you I’ll be back in Europe later next year. In which we can certainly meet up :slight_smile:

Places I’m going solo are Spain, Paris, Brussels and perhaps Switzerland

I pity the family member that has to see me return after a night out in Amsterdam… just because I’m with family… that won’t stop me from behaving like an absolute imbicile when I’m in AMSTERDAM (however I won’t be one of those tourists throwing up in the streets or passing out in public, I know my limits haha)

In Perth rn btw

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for a moment I thought you meant in my country. when in London have a wee jolly north of the border!

what do you think bro? you know what it’s like to take powerlifting seriously and you’re experienced w tren. is this the right cycle to peak for a meet, even though it’s only my second?

wtf is a “wee jolly”?:rofl:

I would drop the tren and run higher test and higher dbol. If you do run tren 300 is a lot for a first time. I have never used tren but I don’t think I would start at 300 a week or with a long Ester.

How high are we talking? I’m not really keen on the idea of running high test and dbol and thus having to manage my estrogen. That’s kinda why I picked the tren. I’d rather run, say 400 test, 200 tren, then 1000 test.

I also have used tren ace for 2 weeks - enough time to know that 2 weeks of peak blood levels of tren won’t ruin me side effect wise, so I’m comfortable using E. Especially with the swelling I get from injecting - I just can’t use tren Ace for any meaningful period of time, it would suck major ass.

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a trip!

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Generally managing estrogen is a lot less inconvenient than a managing a bad reaction to tren in my books

what would you consider doing then if you were in my position?

I think the test dose is perfectly fine. The dbol may make e2 hard to manage though. Have you considered anadrol? I’ve never heard of anyone using it and not raving about the strength gains. That might fit well into the mix. Can’t comment on the tren, it’s outside my level of comfort to give any advice on that one.

I had considered anadrol but I never did either of them so my thoughts are hardly worth anything lol. I could justify either one to myself.

Maybe @Singhbuilder could throw his two cents in since he ran both together on his current blast? He also has been an advocate of low test/high tren cycles and other members seem to mostly agree with him.

Nothing short of amazing, running both together. But I kept the doses low, 20mg Dbol and 50-75mg Drol. I had to come off due to stomach issues however but if you dont suffer from it you’ll be good to go. Even at 20mg Dbol I needed 20mg Nolva ED.

High tren low test is where its at for recomp. I bet that i could go up to 1400mg Tren if I kept my test at 150mg. Obviously im not going to, but 700mg tren was side effect free for me aside from slight acid reflux.



Probably my biggest issue with tren as far as physical sides. I started taking a prilosec every morning and haven’t had any issues sense.

Recomp is mainly what I’m after. If I gain more than 5kg I’ll have to torture myself to make my weight class.

What the fffuuuucccccckkkk

I mean… on these kinds of dosages I’d probably be struggling to pull in 20 calories per day due to severe gastric irritation.

I did this too (omeprazole) but all in all called dbol quits to avoid adding another medication to control sides… as that seems like a slippery slope for me (look at geriatric patients the degree of poly pharmacy that is employed to keep some of them alive… that’s not living… that’s maintaining life)… lasted almost 3 weeks though, maintained 2kg after ceasing use (put on close to 3)

Granted the two scenarios outlined here are vastly different, I tend to just generally not be comfortable taking medication to mask the side effects of other medications.

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