T Nation

2nd Cycle Proposition


Hello everyone, i have not posted in a while because i am trying to read and learn more about steroids. If you are one who flamed me on my OP over a year ago when i did my first cycle, hopefully this will be much better.

Im 25 years old, 6'7 260 lbs. I have been working out for roughly 6 years, though only 3 i would say serious. i have done one previous cycle which was an 8 week cycle sustanon 250 with just an hcg to recover, ( which i know now to use clomid for pct 3 weeks ater my cycle has ended and to use the Hcg throughout the cycle.) Back then i started my cycle at 220 lbs and ended at 242bs roughly. since then I have gained to 260. My cycle goals are to gain 25 lbs, which will land me at 285. My second cycle that is still be planned is the following.

W 1-10 Sustanon 250, 250 mgs E3D- which comes out to a little over 500 a week.
W 1-2 Dbol 10 mg 3x/d - I have heard to use between 2 and 6 weeks so any opinions would be useful.
W 3-10 HCG 250 Iu/week
W 13 Clomid 50 mg 2x/d
W 14-15 Clomid 25 mg 1x/d

Any recommendations or ideas to help aid me will be taken into consideration. Like I said earlier, this is still in the planning stages and can be changed. Thank you.


Thoughts: Consider using the Sust EOD and maybe a bit higher overall dose too. 250iu's of hcg a week is a tad on the low side. Most use 250iu's EOD/E3D. That Clomid plan looks a bit low compared with the standard average practice. You may also consider a test taper, although if you only have sust it becomes more complicated


I've ran two cycles similar to this one. I think it would be beneficial as far as gains to run the dbol for 4 wks. Also would give you more of a jump start and strength in the first wks. Either way it's gonna be a great cycle but just my thought. If you have it available, why not add another 2wks?4wks total at 30mgs a day shouldn't be too taxing on the liver.
Good luck


@ Saps, My main reasoning for every third day is mainly because Im having sombody else inject me. I will increase my HCG dosages. The clomid dosages are the exact recommendations from the newbie steroid sticky. You said it was low, what would you do differently.

@ Ezp , Yeah I had heard to use dbol for 4 weeks but i was just worried about liver toxicity. I will have enough to go that extra two weeks. I'm excited to run the cycle to.

Also to anyone who might know, I had heard that you could use Dbol every once in a while like once a week just to give your workouts a boost and it wont suppress your own testosterone. Is there any validity to that statement? Thanks guys


Dbol once a week wont suppress testosterone. But the rest of your cycle will so it's realy not worth putting thought in to.

6 weeks of dbol is fine.


No you really should be hitting that Sust EOD, with the prop in there E3D is sub optimal. Also and to be bold and blunt you will have to get over your fear of injections eventually. Most of us myself included had tremendous anxiety over self shooting but once you cross the bridge the first time you realize it was all perception and no reality. You will then be free to shoot on your own schedule and not be reliant upon someone else.
I'd double those Clomid doses. Also Im not sure where you saw that recommendation. I double checked the Sticky. I didnt see any Clomid dose recommendation in the first main post. Unless you found something buried within the thread. Bottom Line, I'd double what you proposed.


@ Bonez217, Thats good to hear it wont suppress natural testosterone, I was just interest in that.

@ Saps, your 100% right, I am going to have my buddy on my first injection show me how to do it to myself. I will double my dosage of clomid, i take pct very seriously, thank you for the insight. Right now im trying to think how i could make the dosages every other day. My needles are in cc's so i have to do the conversions but i thought it was 250 miligrams of sust would equal 1 CC of sust. Should i just take my total amount for the week and divide by 3 and inject that much EOD?


Yeah sust250 implies 1cc/ml has 250mg of test in it. If you went EOD you could do something like .6ml per shot if you wanted to keep dose around 500mg/wk. With the dead spot of most 25G+ needles being .13ml though its kinda wasteful to use anything other than slin pins with anything less than 1ml IMO. Not sure you have slin pins. But if you fear needles they are cake/easy to deal with. You dont feel them at all. Mind you you have to be fairly lean but delts bis and tris all become slin pin site options for you and with an EOD protocol thats plenty of rotation sites.


W 1-12 Sustanon 250, 125 mgs EOD- which comes out to 500 mgs a week. ( or just over 500)
W 1-4 Dbol 10 mg 3x/d
W 3-12 HCG 250 Iu/ E3d
W 15 Clomid 50 mg 2x/d
W 16-17 Clomid 50 mg 1x/d

How does this look as a final proposition. I can still fix it if anything is not enough or to much.


125 mg EOD averages out to 437.5 mg per week, not 500. Saps' recommendation of .6cc was 525mg on average. Just FYI.


Thanks, calculus was never my strong suit.

i will use .6 cc EOD


So you put on 20lb on your first cycle.
You put on 20lb since with no roids.
Why not just keep doing what you are doing to put the next 20lb on? Are we missing something here?


First and Foremost: I dont think steroids are bad for you if done correctly and under good supervision, If i am of age and know enough about the different components used and am capable of running a good cycle i dont see why i shouldnt if i feel the need.

The first 20 lbs took 7 weeks and 5 days and was mostly muscle

the last 20 took a year and a half and is mostly fat because im a hard gainer and I have to eat a shit ton of food to maintain and alot more to gain. That calorie calculator the tells you how much you need to eat to gain muscle told me i need to eatabout 7500 calories to gain weight. if i dont eat over 5000 a day i lose weight based on how active i am. im in school, i cant eat that many calories clean purely because of time.

Once i get to 285 i will have accomplished all the weight i will ever want to gain. Then at that point i can focus on maintaining weight and slowly lose the fat through diet and exercise. This will be my last cycle. the only reason im doing this is cause i didnt reach my weight goals on the first.


Hey Guys i start my PCT tomorrow, I appreciate everyones advice, my cycle went beautifully. Im 277 lbs with 13% body fat, i gained 50 lbs on my bench and 65 on my squat. Im def gonna cycle again to get to 300 lbs though once my body is ready. 6'7 300 lbs at 13% bodyfat would be pretty impressive :slightly_smiling: Thanks again guys.


Ill also throw in that self-injecting is 80% more pain free than when somebody else does it.
Atleast for me.