T Nation

2nd Cycle Help/Ideas Wanted


Hey guys i am planing on doing 2nd cycle in a month or so and im thinking of a mass cycle...

my ideas was somthing with test e

and at the end some clen

Cycle i was thinking of:
wk 1-10 Test E 500mg/wk
wk 1-2 D-bol 20 mg ED
wk 2-3 D-bol 40 mg ED
Wk 6-7 Winny 20-40 ED
Wk 7-8 Winny 40-60 ED
Wk 8-9 20mcg Clen
Wk 9-10 40mcg Clen
Wk 10-11 20mcg Clen

Wk 11-13 PCT (Clomid and Nolva)

now im still not sure what dosage and if winny,dianabol should be oral or 1 of them should be injectable i dont wanna run too high dosage too..

tnx for your help/ideas and time

also what kind of changes i would get after this cycle how many lbs i would gain and approx body fat difference also i was thinking of 150carbs a day or is it too low? i dont feel good on high carbs...

are the cals and macros ok?

2,373 cals

185 carbs 88 fats 209 protein

on lower carb day i would go to 150carbs


your lack of understanding is truly remarkable


epic… thats not what my first cycle showd me… :wink:


also if your not wanting to help dont comment at all.


if you can gain weight on less than 2400 calories… you are tiny

but I digress.

week 1-12
test E 750mg

weeks 6-14
dbol 50mg ED

weeks 1-14 + taper into pct
letro 2.5mg EOD

after week 14
pct Nolva 40/40/40/20/20/20

no winny, no clen.

no one can give you any answer regarding how much size or strength you will gain, that is entirely up to you. How you train, eat and sleep will decide how much you gain or don’t gain.

adjust your diet based on body composition, weight gain, and strength progress


My boy :wink: nice answer tnx for your idea/help but i wonder why i shouldnt add clen or winny ? any specific reason or just somthing i would never do

well i didnt count protein shakes and also the calculator i used didnt add tuna fat to it… so is around 2800cals at the end… and ye i agree 2.3 is small but i also want idea on macros if they are ok (ratio wise) or i should up any of those

stats 90kg 6"0 around 17% bf


also how come dbol that long? isnt dbol somthing people run for like 3-4 weeks?


[quote]Beast4Be wrote:
also how come dbol that long? isnt dbol somthing people run for like 3-4 weeks?[/quote]

no. the whole idea behind only running oral steroids for 4 weeks came from PH manufacturers who put instructions on the bottle not to use the PH for more than 4 weeks at a time… they just wanted to cover their asses and ensure that no one would get serious health issues from their product

drol, methyltest, etc… have been run at high doses for YEARS, with relatively little side effects.

and clenbuterol is a fat loss drug, and winstrol is a drug that should be limited to the final 6 weeks in a precontest phase. It wont make you lose fat, it wont make you lose water. it will only add a finishing look to an already very lean physique.

for the amount of damage that it causes to your lipids, it’s not worth it to ever run at any other time.


well though i should add them cuz i kinda want lean mass not that bulky one (puffy full of water and sh.t) but if its not good idea ok also tnx for the info about the max 4 weeks and stuff like that


is cycle support supp any good to use for liver support? or its better to buy milk thisle,nac for better dosing


[quote]Beast4Be wrote:
is cycle support supp any good to use for liver support? or its better to buy milk thisle,nac for better dosing[/quote]

Milk thistle is useless for the liver damage caused by steroids(cholestasis - bile backup in the liver). What you want is TUDCA.


[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
your lack of understanding is truly remarkable [/quote]

you mean you don’t run clen and winstrol on your ‘mass cycles’? My world has been turned upside down.