T Nation

2nd Cycle Disaster 3rd Cycle Help


Stats are
Age 27
height 6 ft 7 almost 200 cm I think
weight 18 stone 250 lbs
don't know body fat I got a little pop belly off me but there's something under there

First cycle was straight test-e 500mgs/wk which felt awesome!! gained some good size and strength. Only regret was not taking a proper record of the cycle to compare results but gains where good (chest popped out like a balloon and biceps grew an extra egg) as was keeping to a good diet.

Second cycle which am just finishing now is
D-bol 30mgs/day
test e 250mgs/ e3d's

I'll keep this short cause if your attention span is like mine then, well you probably wouldn't of got this far. first 4 weeks where great, gains where going well diet was good enough, felt ace with that D-bol feeling then disaster!!!! Some knob head built a rope swing (quite foking poorly) across a drop between two rocks in a forest nearby.

1st swing was ok, just a tester really bit like losing your virginity, thescariest at first and next time you want to do it better. 2nd swing not so good, runs up was good, trajectory and all that, the focker snapped half way across!!! so there I was falling 50ft or so at speed thinking this is gonna hurt some I better put my hands out like people used to tell me on my constant trips to the ground as a boy.

FUCK that I wish I fucking took it on the face!!!! One dislocated shoulder and an arm smashed in two places. kinda put an end to the cycle what with the cast and all. though cause I can't lift or do any cardio (except waggle my legs in the air a bit) am still doing the test to try and stop any muscle lost as am taking the opportunity to diet a little. (oh and injecting with one arm in full plaster cast and the other your non-favourite left hand IS funny thought not to me)

on to the 3rd cycle
cause now am mega pissed of with the last one, I wanna make up for lost time, so soon as this cast comes off and its time am gonna hit it hard!!!!
things that I want from this cycle is size n strength and I was thinking a little cutting towards the end, this is what I was thinking

D-bol 50mgs ed wk 1-4
Deca 200mgs e3d's wk 1-12
Test e 250mg's e3d's wk 1-13
Proviron 50mgs ed wk 1-12
Winstrol 50mgs ed wk 10-15

pct start end of wk 15

Any idea's on that anyone?

Also all my previous PCT has been clomid or nolva but am thinking after this cycle I may need some Hcg can anyone help on that?

Cheers one and all


Will it beworth adding Clen to the cycle or replacing the winny with it, as i say I have got a little belly fat i wouldn't mind getting rid of


Stay off the rope swing.. ;D

Have you still got a cast on? If so, when does it come off?
- Have you been training at all?
- Do you intend to run AAS immediately, or wait until back upto speed?
- Do you intend to begin training immediately; a rehab protocol or straight into the heavy stuff?
- Have you lost or gained weight during this injury? (this tells what body type you have).

If the cast is off, how long has it been off?
- Have you been training? If so then what, and if not how long have you been out of the gym in total?
- Are you still on the second cycle, and if so how long is left?
- If you are off cycle now, then how long have you been off?

Are you intending to take time off the hormones between the second and third cycle?

Are you wanting to gain weight, lose weight, or stay the same with improved body composition?

I am not great at assessing the weight of taller people, being so damn short, but AFAIK 250lbs at 6'7" is pretty lanky is it not? I am picturing a skinny-fat physique.. due to mentioning a 'pot-belly' - be honest.

Seeing as you personally asked me to post - answer these questions honestly :wink:

If you simply want some 'blind' cycle advice, then let me know.



It depends what your goals are. To me that plan looks like a bulking cycle and with proper diet will make lean and solid gains possible. I wouldn't introduce clen on that, since you already have the sups which will make the ''little belly fat'' fade away as long the diet is on tracks. Instead of that some AI would be something to go whit, in terms of keeping that water retention in control.



OK.. i just wanted to check you had good plans and common sense before i went into detail about your cycle, and you seem 'normal' enough. (We have had a fuck load of twats here of late).

You want more muscle, and to improve body comp.. (dont we all). Steroids are great for this, but the diet NEEDS to match the goals. It is simple in theory - eat more than you burn to gain weight, and less to lose it.
If you are wanting a little of both, as a relative beginner (to PED) this shouldn't be an issue as you should still have quite profound results from AAS still.

You will need to eat a lot of protein, 1g-2g/lb bodyweight.
You mentioned you are not lanky, but used to be - suggesting you ate and trained your way out from that label. This leads me to believe that you may be best with a low GI approach to this cycle, giving plenty of carbs but controlling insulin.
You can eat a lot - and not restrict your calories - just don't force food down.. and also restrict any simple carbs that are from un-natural sources (so fruit, etc. are fine in abundance).
Eat plenty of fibre and eat low fat too. Carbs will be around 2g/lb bodyweight.. this brings calories to around 4000k/day, without fats - so with any fats you get in will bring to around maintenance i'd expect (but with a very good ratio of macro's which is important for body comp.)

This will result in being a 'clean' bulk, minimal fat gain - dependant on calories rather than quality of food - and a positive nitrogen balance giving high protein synthesis (eating protein regularly and supplementing leucine will ensure that fact).

Your cycle is decent, but i'd change a few things:

The dbol is too high IMO - your total dose of AAS in this cycle is as high as 2g!!! This is not just overkill, it is ridiculous for your experience. You have used 30mg of dbol and been happy. Leave it at that.

Deca ran without an anti-prolactin drug at this dose (~466mg/wk) WILL cause ED issues. I would always recommend a dopamine agonist with Nandrolone, from much personal experience - and i would also say that the dose is higher than need be anyway. As you weigh alot, 400mg is OK.. but i would say 300mg is enough for a first time. This is also a fucking long time to run this highly suppressive and libido killing drug. I honestly never ran it longer than 8 weeks and would keep it to 6 for any cycle i design these days.

This is 583mg/wk.. a decent dose. An AI IS needed with this especially with the addition of a progestin and dbol.
Recovery is longer the longer you stay on, and most find gains slow drastically after ~9 weeks.

I don't know your reasons for adding this - please expand. Any benefits it has, stanazolol will provide, plus more. Choose one or the other. I like proviron personally, but i dislike Stan.. so i am biased. Stan at least has strength results and is anabolic (apparently!) - Proviron is not.
It is not enough to lower estrogen as you may or may not believe, and its SHBG benefits are, as i recently understood for the first time, misunderstood.
It will give a hard, high androgen look to a physique however, but so with stan - plus all of the above.

This i assume is part of the 'cutting' part of the cycle. It simply doesn't work like that. I swear. If you want the strength, fine - but don't expect it to help you get leaner than any of the other compounds you are running may - it doesn't aromatise and is DHT derivative - so will promote lipolysis, but if you are not cutting, you wont notice jack (unlike the mighty Tren).
It could help with the progesterone activity of the nandrolone, BUT not when you chose to include it IMO.

Which is..?

You wanna hear my version? I will do two - one with Nandrolone, and one without.

Wk1-8 Test E 500mg/wk (250mg 2x/wk)
Wk1-6 Deca 300mg/wk (150mg 2x/wk)
Wk1-6 Dbol 210mg/wk (30mg/day)
Wk1-6 Winny 350mg/wk (50mg/day)

Wk1-8 Caber 1mg/wk (0.5mg 2x/wk)
Wk1-8 Adex 0.5-0.75mg/day


The Test E dose on day 1 is 650mg, and the Deca dose on day 1 is 400mg - this makes your cycle fully effective with less waiting. The Winstrol and Dianabol use is dependant on a Liver Function Test coming back proving a healthy liver.
The Caber is for the Prolactin increase from the Estrogen and also the Progesterone like activity from the Deca.
The Adex is to reduce the Estrogen level caused by every AAS other than the Winstrol.

Wk1-8 Test E 500mg/wk (250mg 2x/wk)
Wk1-6 Dbol 210mg/wk (30mg/day)
Wk1-6 Winny 350mg/wk (50mg/day)

Wk1-8 Adex 0.5-0.75mg/day


This is a simple cycle that builds further on the cycles you have run.. you must understand it isn't necessary that every cycle must be higher in dosage than the next.. just over time, gradually. Save your money.
For example, around 1 - 1.5g of androgens will see you good for at least 10 cycles IME.

If you run Deca, you will be glad of the caber. The winstrol would help too, so with the Deca cycle, if you aren't comfortable with that many orals - drop the Winstrol to 175mg/wk (25mg/day).. this is only 55mg of orals a day and fine.

I am no doctor, just my opinion of course :wink:


GOod advicse brook.
I did some calculations, your second cycle included 7.84g of total AAS. Your proposed 3rd cycle, you added 8.3 grams of additional AAS plus 4.2 grams of oral DHT. Your body can only grow at a certain rate, you are wasting money and gear, while giving your body a hard time processing these drugs.

BUt having said that, if you really want to ramp up the dosage, I would suggest.

Week 1-12 250mg Test-e EOD + deca 200mg every week
Week 1-4 Dbol 30mg/day kick start
week 13-15 test prop 100ED + 50mg winstrolED (Cut up while long ester clears out)
HCG 250 EOD week 2-15

But brook's cycle is much more realistic


I know! His dosages were stunningly high! Shit..


alright guys thanks alot! Brook I'm really thankfull of the help. I have done a lot of reading on here and of all the advice on here yours is amongst the most knowledgable and sensible. so cheers for taking the time!!!!

I'll try and get a pic on here at some point soon (just had the pot off today aswell) just cant seem to take a decent enough one in the mirror on me lonesome. cheers for the diet advise that was sort of the avenue i was heading for but hearing it from someone else nails it!!

the two reasons i suppose i ended up on high doses of gear was because A) I'm still pissed of about throwing myself from great heights and B) because my body seems to handle gears quite well though of course i dont want to push it

Considered what you said about the volume and shit yeah think i will drop the D-bol to 30mgs also after you mention TREN i read up on that as its not one I was 100% familiar with (as a beginner and no-one seems to cycle it alot, though its decribed as the best steroids around???) and FUCKING HELL that shit looks good!!! I might look to included that in a cycle as it has strong muscle, strenght and fat cutting properties

I'll get that picture on in a bit gtg back to work am on my dinner

Peace out and thanks


here are some pics of me now I'm a bit bigger than this in 3D but suppose the camera doesn't lie!!! shit don't know if they have to be approved first they dont seem to wanna play ball but iv'e put some on me profile


does this l;ook better for a cycle? o0r still to high? am waiting for my source top come back online then i can price up a tren cycle so i might check that out any ideas on the sort of cycle would it be tren/test/deca or d-bol???

Wk1-12 Test E 250mg/ every 3 days
Wk1-10 Deca 100mg/ every 3
Wk1-4 Dbol(30mg/day)
Wk10-14 Winny 350mg/wk (50mg/day)


When i hear of someone being 250lbs (as someone who stands at 5'8") asnd taller than 6'.. i automatically think of a very good physique.

I honestly can not see that you workout, let alone are planning your third cycle.

I would seriously look into managing your food better and devoting more time to training before planning your next run. Seriously.

This is not a flame about your physique.. you have a standard body for todays society, and i am one of the least expectant people when it comes to Steroids. What i mean by that is i for one totally understand that a good physique (not amazing, but just good) is not built in just a few years, and/or a few cycles. it takes a lot more than that (unless naturally gifted** like prisoner or Dirty Gerdy).

**Gifted, in my experience is often an ability to train with a balls to the wall intensity, rather than an inhibition of a myostatin gene or whatever the fuck (likely a little of both TBH). Where most average trainees would stop due to pain, those gifted would be able to crank out another 3 excruciating reps. This over time accrues to significant changes... added to the higher intensity in every other physical activity since birth of course.

All i am saying is not that you don't deserve to use AAS - i dont think like that - i am just saying that no matter what you think, if you dialled in your diet (most likely to begin with, higher protein levels) you would be able to make strides when introducing AAS back into your plan.
Also look at your intensity of effort.. that is quite proportionate to what you get out of training.