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2nd Cycle Critique????

This is what i hav planned as my 2nd cycle ,leading to the nationals here in India.Pl critique this cycle:
Weeks 1-4: 500mg/wk Test, 400mg/wk EQ (800mg/wk 1 only),30mg/day d-bol,proviron 50mg ed,nolva 10mg ed.

Weeks 5-6: 500mg/wk Test, 400mg/wk EQ ,HCG 5000.I.U. every 10 days ill end of week10

Weeks 7-8: 500mg/wk Test, 400mg/wk EQ
50mg/ed Winny(eod if injectable)

Weeks 9-10: 500mg/wk Test(prop if possible), 50mg/eod Winny( inj.)

Weeks 11-15: 50mg/eod Winny( inj.),Deca 200mg/week

Week15-19: PCT(prop) or 12-16(ent or cyp)
What do ya suggest i should do to avoid the joint pains i would experience towards the end of the cycle,while on winny.That was the reason i added deca to cushion the joints a bit,would that affect my cutting in any way or should i go in for someother option.this is going to be my first shot at the antionals and i don’t intend goofig up.Also would sticking to glucosamine,chondroitin,MSm throughout the cycle,Suggestions please.

I’d start the hcg after week 3 on a sat.sun. protocol of 500-1000iu. each time.
I’d run the EQ for 10-12 weeks.
You could ditch the winstrol and use anavar instead…The results are pretty comparable on a mg for mg basis.

MK

Quit the cycle bro!

I second the weekly hcg protocol of 250-500 iu sat, and sunday.

As for running deca into a show, I wouldn’t as you will get some water retention from it. Keep the winstrol however, as it down regulates the ER, and will help cut your up. I highly recomend you save your proviron for later on leading into the show as well, as it is very similar to masteron in its effects. Actually If you can’t get tren for the show, then I recomend running the equipoise, proviron, and winstrol into the show. and using the deca earlier on in place of the eq. Make sure to stop all your test at least 3-4 weeks before the show, as you do not want any excess water retention related to the test leading into the contest. Hope this helped.

Weeks 1-4: 500mg/wk Test, ),30mg/day d-bol,Deca 200mg/week proviron 50mg ed,nolva 10mg ed.

Weeks 5-6: 500mg/wk Test,Deca 200mg/week HCG 5000.I.U. every 10 days till end of week10

Weeks 7-8: 500mg/wk Test, 400mg/wk EQ (800mg/wk 7 only)proviron 50mg ed
50mg/ed Winny (eod if injectable)

Weeks 9-10: 500mg/wk Test(prop if possible),400mg/wk EQ, 50mg/eod Winny( inj.) proviron 50mg ed

Weeks 11-15: 50mg/eod Winny( inj.),400mg/wk EQ,proviron 50mg ed

Week15-19: PCT(prop) or 12-16(ent or cyp)

Can i cut the dosage of Eq,say get it down to 200-300mg/week also do you think i need to front load eq@800mg.Also could i replace the Winny with Primobolan towards the end to retain gains and enhance cutting.

Add in Primo if you like at the end, but keep the Winny. It is a class 2 steroid which gives you some benefit that the other class ones do not, so there is no rationale to deprive yourself of it, Also don’t forget eq has a very long half life, so take this into consideration when planning for pct.

Since eq has such a long half, front loading will be a must, even when starting it mid way into your cycle, or else you will have a dip in blood levels of AAS at some point.

Hey,Thanks for that piece of advice bro.Pl clarify on the dosage of Eq both for front loading and for the rest of the cycle,also what should be the dosage for primo depot and does primo help in releivin joint pains from winny and how do i counter that?

Your idea of frontloading the eq at 3x the amount of your weekly planned dose is a good one, since you want blood levels to rise quickly up to speed.

As for primo, use no less than 400mg per week. It can be fronted as well, but the enanthate ester is shorter, so only double the dose. And yes it has joint - healing properties as well, but not on par with eq and nandrolone. You will however have plenty of boldonone and nandrolone still in your system to for joint health, that the winny shouldn’t give you any problems at all.

vnkat, if you’re that concerned about joint issues w/ winny, just substitute anavar for it…Anavar increases collagen synthesis right on par w/ deca and eq. Good luck on your show,I’m in the offseason right now, but will be doing the jr. nationals in july.

MK

In that case can i keep my weekly Eq dose at 250mg/week and front load at 800mg?I would like to even lower the dose of EQ to200mg/week ,would that be very low considering i intend putting on some quality lean mass?PL elucidate.

[quote]mikekatz wrote:
vnkat, if you’re that concerned about joint issues w/ winny, just substitute anavar for it…Anavar increases collagen synthesis right on par w/ deca and eq. Good luck on your show,I’m in the offseason right now, but will be doing the jr. nationals in july.

MK[/quote]

Once again we disagree. There is a reason(s) for doing winny. #1 it is a class 2 steroid which will COMPLEMENT your class 1 steroids, giving you BETTER results. #2 winstrol helps down regulate the ER and has some antagonist effects on progesterone as well. This all means that it’ll help with definition. The reason for NOT doing anavar is: first off it is expensive, an a class 1 that has simmilar effects to primo and equipoise - if you want better results, just increase your eq dossage, and save your money since they are both class 2s.

You could however use anavar to assist in the loading stage of your equipoise to bring you up to therapeutic levels of aas quicker, but this can be accomplished by using proviron as well - which is, of course a lot more affordable.

What do ya suggest would be the ideal Eq dosage for my cycle!!And when do i include primo and at what dosage,doya think primois necessary alongside eq and winny for definition and gains retention!!

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
mikekatz wrote:
vnkat, if you’re that concerned about joint issues w/ winny, just substitute anavar for it…Anavar increases collagen synthesis right on par w/ deca and eq. Good luck on your show,I’m in the offseason right now, but will be doing the jr. nationals in july.

MK

Once again we disagree. There is a reason(s) for doing winny. #1 it is a class 2 steroid which will COMPLEMENT your class 1 steroids, giving you BETTER results. #2 winstrol helps down regulate the ER and has some antagonist effects on progesterone as well. This all means that it’ll help with definition. The reason for NOT doing anavar is: first off it is expensive, an a class 1 that has simmilar effects to primo and equipoise - if you want better results, just increase your eq dossage, and save your money since they are both class 2s.

You could however use anavar to assist in the loading stage of your equipoise to bring you up to therapeutic levels of aas quicker, but this can be accomplished by using proviron as well - which is, of course a lot more affordable.

[/quote]

No problem p22,afterall the best way to make an educated decision in any facet of life, be it AAS or a business endeavor, is to take in opinions from various sources and ultimately make your own decisions from the info you’ve compiled.
In regards to your reasoning,I’m personally not a big believer in the class1/2 theory…I think there is so much more to know regarding the mechanisms that AAS exert their effects, unfortunately not enough research is being devoted to that area. I guess only time will tell…But until then we can agree to disagree:)

MK

The only advantage to primo use is that it does not aromatise. I would add, if you are not using an antiaromatase such as letrozole or arimidex, it would be a good idea to skip the eq and just run the primo. Any amount of retained estrogen in your system is going to affect your contest shape, unless of course you are using diuretics, which of I don’t recomend for a first - timer.

As for dosages whichever you pick I have shown dosages above, trying to keep in mind you are not competing in the heavyweight division as I would be. I personally do close to 2 grams of combined AAS per week when in contest training.

As for MK: I realise there are different opinions as to AAS theories, however to put things into perspective, study basic pharmacology. Many other body systems are regulated by more than one mechanism - for example hypertensive medications. There are 6 different families that achieve the same result of lowering blood pressure, but do it through different mechanisms:
Betablocker, ACE inhibitors, Calcium channel blockers, diuretics, opiods and Nitroglycerin. Each of these meds when used alone will lower Blood pressure, however, when used with each other have a synergistic effect - meaning they produce a more dramatic result when used together than the combined results of each if used by itself. And this is the key rationale behind stacking steroids. For example If you use one ACE inhibitor with another ACE inhibitor, it means you get the same result as if you had only used one ACE inhibitor, as there is limits to what this drug can do. However if you combined an ACE inhibitor with a Calcium channel blocker, then your results will be greater because the two drugs have different mechanisms causing a more dramatic overall result. This is the same with steroids - A class 1 with simmilar mechanisms will not achieve any different results if combined with another class 1 then if the first class 1 dosage was just increased. Stack a class 1 however with a class 2 and you increase the potential of your results.

“I personally do close to 2 grams of combined AAS per week when in contest training.”

All I can say is WOW!
I might use 3/4 that amount when bulking, but when I’m in contest prep, the most I’ve ever ran was 1250mg combined AAS.
But everyone’s body type is different…I am more of an ectomorph, so my predisposition to burn calories at an abnormal rate requires me to use more gear when trying to gain size. Even when bulking I stay in the 8-10% bf range.
When is your next show P22? MIne’s not until July, so needless to say, I will get to enjoy food 4 a while (it’s convenient for me that the holidays overlapped while I’m in the offseason)

MK

Don’t you guys think Nolva and Proviron are good enough anti-e’s.Also you haven’t yet given a clear dosage for the Eq ann Primo<As for winny i intend taking 50mg shots eod.!!!Would that be fine!!!

I can’t give you a clear dosage because of your weight. You obviously don’t need as much aas as I do. I would recomend however: winny 50mg ed, and primo or eq - at least 600mg per week. Front load each at the twice the dosage for a week (Primo) or (Eq) 2 weeks.

MK: I havn’t even being training hard for months- my next contest is in June, then the nationals in August. I will probably begin training for size in mid December, right now I have been off cycle - just on some hrt since mid August. I tend to actually use more AAS for contest dieting, as I find I need more AAS to keep my size while dieting then I do to gain size while bulking.

Hey!I am about 135lbs and am about 5’3" and am all muscle,almost!I intend competing in the bantam/fly weight category for which i need to put on at least 10lbs of quality muscle ,i gained as much in my previous cycle,so even if i were to lose a few pounds while cuting up i would still look huge.As of now my arms are about 16 1/4" i intend pushing it to 17 1/4" and a lot of mass on my legs.My last cycle was a 12 week cycle @Sustanon from weeks 1-8 @100mg/ed(front load @900mg),D-bol weeks 1-5@20mg/ed(week5 30mg),Deca weeks 1-8 @300mg,winny weeks 8-12 @40mg/ed,nolva@20mg&proviron@50mged for the entire length.Suggestions pl.