T Nation

2nd Cycle Advice/Tips?

Hey guys, long time follower first time poster. I am about to start my 2nd cycle and just like to get some more informed opinions.

My first ever cycle was just straight test (sustanon) 500mg/week (split between two doses) for 12 weeks (and obviously a PCT protocol)

My next cycle I’m looking to bump it up a little and add a 2nd compound.

Weeks 1-10

Test E 500mg/ week

Deca Durabolin 400mg/ week

Week 11-12

Test E 250mg/ week

I have letrozole on hand ready to go for my AI Incase I start getting sides such as gyno etc. for my pct I have nolva and clomid which I intend to start two weeks after last pin

30 day PCT

50mg clomid twice daily

20mg nolva twice daily

Questions are-

1, would letrozole be overkill in this situation?

2, HCG is pretty hard to come by in Australia. Is it really required for PCT? Would the above PCT be sufficient?

3, would going up to 750mg/ week of test for first 10 weeks be too much?

Thanks in advance. Open to any suggestions/criticism

My stats

Age- 27

Height- 6’1

Weight - 103kg (226lbs)

Bf% roughly around 12%

10+ years training exp

Answers in order

  1. Yes, probably
  2. Not necessary at all
  3. Depends; what can you do at 750 that you can’t do at 500, and is that added benefit worth the added side effects? Impossible to answer until ex post facto

Now, I have questions for you. Why deca for only 10 weeks? That ester is long and the effects are quite subtle for the first six weeks or so. Maybe they’ll be more noticeable at that dose, but the full power won’t be reached until you’re more than halfway done. That leaves you with four weeks at full dose plus another three or so once you stop taking it and the accrued half lives start to wear off. So best case scenario is 7-8 weeks of benefit. Big picture, given the wide range of things than can go wrong with nandrolone, you’re infinitely better off just doing the 750 test and 0 deca. Deca’s dirty little secret is that there’s nothing it can do that other drugs can’t do, and it comes at a price that for some is very high.

Your pct is overkill imo. You could easily use Nolva-only at 40/40/20/20 rather than loading up on Clomid (which also has some serious downsides). Now if you’ve already used Clomid before and you know that you tolerate it well then sure, go ahead and use it. But I don’t see the need when Nolva has been clinically proven to be a better option at a much lower dose.

Have you used letro before? What AI dis you use for your first cycle?

Because I only have 20ml of deca and 20ml of Test E so I thought for the deca do 2ml/week for 10 weeks. Would you suggest maybe drop it to 1.5ml week deca for longer say 12-13 weeks?

When you say things that can go wrong with nandrolone, could you be more specific please? Anything in particular that people find goes wrong with nandrolone in comparison to another compound? I was recommended to chuck in some deca for the added muscle/strength gains along with some apparent “bone/joint” benefits?

In relation to letro, That’s what I could get my hands on this time. I’ve heard good and bad reviews about it. Generally that it’s too potent for an AI and can actually make your estrogen go too low. Should I use maybe half doses EOD?

First cycle I actually only used nolva to control estrogen on cycle.

The pct above is basically part of a protocol recommend in an ebook “anabolics” by William Llewelyn. The protocol in the ebook recommends all 3 (hcg,clomid and nolva) at various amounts for different lengths of time. I basically just took the hcg out of the equation and got enough clomid and nolva to do the pct the ebook recommended as I can’t seem to find any hcg in Australia.

Thanks in advance.

P.s- Also forgot to add, I compete BJJ/submission grappling at quite a high level hence the deca recommendation.

@iron_yuppie

So trouble with nandrolone…where does one start? The serious stuff is less likely, but still important to remember. That’s LVH—and anytime things are bad for your heart you should know it going in and assess family history first—and then there’s the brain stuff. Nandrolone can mess with neurotransmitters (in some abstract way that is two levels above my understanding) and can lead some guys to depression. That stuff isn’t as likely but it’s also something to ponder before making the decision to use it. Then there’s the dreaded deca dick. This is much more common. Symptoms can be as benign as a weak erection and as severe as no erection or libido, sometimes months after use. Hell, some guys have had deca dick for years after use. And there is no answer as to why. There’s a metric truckload of bro science, but nothing even close to a real, scientific answer. Since there’s no good answer as to why it happens there’s kind of no way to completely avoid it. Not everyone gets this side effect. But for those who do get it it’s unpleasant at best and ruinous at worst. Hard to justify using a drug with so much baggage when there are alternatives out there. But that’s my opinion. Plenty of guys still use nandrolone and love it. It’s just a roll of the dice.

What was your planned letro dose?

@iron_yuppie the letrozole tablets are 2.5mg. That seems to be the standard.

So if I was to take out the nandrolone, What replacement compound would you suggest? I know I can get Tren E 200mg/ml quite easily, but don’t know if I’m that keen to mess around with that just yet.

I want to stay away from orals if I can, don’t want to start playing around with potentially liver toxic compounds.