T Nation

2nd Cycle Advice/Critique?

Hi guys, just wanted some reassurance on this cycle plan and if it was a good idea or not.

10-12% bf

Have done my first cycle of just Test E 400mg weekly, arimidex .25 EOD and PCT Nolva/Clomid. Everything went great and happy with the results.

This time around i was thinking i was gonna try and lean bulk. Aim for 5-10kg of muscle while dropping a few % in bf.

2nd Cycle advice -
weeks 1-12 Test e 500mg weekly (pin twice) (might run for 16 weeks)
weeks 1-4 Anavar 50mg daily (split daily dosage)
weeks 5-12 Mast E 400mg weekly (pin with Test E)
Arimidex .25 EOD

weeks 15-18 Nolva 40,40,20,20
weeks 15-18 Clomid 50,50,25,25 (could i drop clomid and just run nolva?)

Any advice for this 2nd cycle i plan on running would be great. Should i do both Anavar and Mast E? or just choose one?

Thanks in advance

One of our rules here in this world that everyone should abide by is test only for your first cycle and then only one new compound per cycle.

The long and short is of you are taking two new compounds and have a side effect or issue you do not know which one is causing the issue. Keep it simple for your ease of mind and for your long term health.

Since you should only do one new compound and you are looking at mast e or anavar let’s review. I personally feel that everyone should try winstrol before anavar because they always fake anavar with winstrol. If you take anavar and like it so you keep using it then down the road realize it was winstrol all along you will feel dumb and you will have waisted all that money paying “anavar” prices for winstrol. Anavar is one of the most expensive common compounds so it is faked a lot and winstrol is one of the most affordable common compounds and unfortunately they end up being very similar and the end results are usually only discernable by a very experienced user. Don’t get me wrong anavar is good stuff but really for us regular guys it’s quality that we would use it for is using it to bust through a strength plateau. Otherwise it’s other unique quality is it helps the skin look tight and really that only matters if you are walking across a stage.
Masteron is good stuff it’s one of my regular add ins. However if you are running mast enanthate then the long ester chain rule applies, you need to run it a minimum of 10 weeks and really it should be 12.

A good cycle of test and mast can work wonders. Just keep in mind that mast is one of the expensive compounds so it can be faked. Really it’s best quality is the look you get on it IF you have real low body fat. Otherwise it doesn’t help you build a whole lot. It just helps keep what you do build lean and dry aka quality. However that characteristics of keeping the gains lean and quality can be had through other compounds at a much more effective cost to return. Mast also helps free up other compounds that SHBG would bind to. Again you can get this via a more cost effective route through Proviron. Mast also has anti estrogenic properties yet again you can get this in a more cost effective manner through Proviron. The only thing mast does that you can’t get anywhere else is that grainy look when you have VERY low body fat. I personally feel that mast is something that a more experienced user could properly harness and justify the cost. Don’t let any of this discourage you, if you are anything like me then if you spend the higher amount to get mast then that voice in your head will be saying “you need to put in more effort to justify the cost of mast.”

For PCT, yes you really only need Nolvadex but peace of mind is priceless so if you want to take clomid too just to feel safe, do it. I would ask how did your last PCT go? Did you have any issue and what did you use?


You really shouldn’t need much (if any) arimidex if you’re taking that much mast. Otherwise it’s fine. Drop the clomid.


Did not expect this kind of reply. Unbelievable some of the stuff people do on this forum. Really appreciate it. The reason for me choosing these 2 compounds are with what i have read they have the least amount of sides (eg winstrol achy joints and more liver toxicity)(Mast - just makes most people feel good. haha)

Sides would be the last thing i want to go through. For me personally the price difference wasn’t too concerning and as you said i would probably just train a lot harder to justify it.

PCT was great, didn’t go through any lows. Bounced back quick and kept probably 80% of the gains. Just had a few breakouts on PCT, which is why i wanted to drop the clomid. Might have been the reason might not have.

Thanks iron_yuppie. Will definitely try and start without arimidex then. Will just have on hand.

Another question, taking orals such as anavar or winstrol. I have read a lot about taking TUDCA? Is it worth it as it is very pricey? Will definitely be taking milk thistle and other products though.

I second this. Also I would flip things around I would run the mast with the test from the beginning all the way thru and add the anavar the last 4 weeks.

Yes it’s worth it. I have blood results with and without tudca to prove it in my case. Yoh can get a months worth of tudca for $20 also get some NAC. I would take 250mg tudca x2 a day and 1200-1800mg of NAC.

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Thanks zeek1414. I will definitely throw in some NAC. And ff you don’t mind, where do you find TUDCA at those prices?

So just to confirm. Last 4 weeks, run the Test with Mast and also the Anavar on top? Thanks for the advice.

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Just go online and look for TUDCA. Don’t get it in one of those five supplements in one pill mixes, those are rip offs. You can try putting the words “raw” or “powder” along with TUDCA to find the best prices. Yeah the powder is a pain but even if you don’t have some other powdered drink mix to mix in with it you can just take a small glass of juice and mix the dose of TUDCA powder in that and chug it.

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Go to Amazon there is a brand called nutircost you get 60 250mg caps and it’s $29 sorry not 20.

As Now_i_care stated you can probably find bulk powder for even cheaper altho personally I hate using bulk powders I find it annoying to have to mix shit etc I rather pay a little more for the convenience. I used bulk powders for a while then found my having to mix numerous different powers many times a day and they often tatse horrible

And you def don’t want raw NAC that shit smells like rotten eggs I can’t imagine what it tatse like

That’s just how I would run it. I would start with the test and mast and run those all 12 weeks. Then the last 4 weeks use the anavar.

Anavar is pretty mild using it in the beginning is almost pointless IMO especially sense the test won’t really have kicked in yet. By saving it til the last 4 weeks you will have optimal testosterone levels along with the masteron and it will allow for the mildness of the anavar to really shine.

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I remember reading a couple years back about not taking Tudca within ~4 hours of orals like DBol, does that apply to anavar as well? I made sure to space them out, but can’t remember the reasoning for it.

I would drop the mast for EQ or NPP. Mast is more of a finisher when you’re already super lean, and if your goal is lean mass with slight bf drop, EQ will be cheaper and more effective. I would also look into TEST P, just gives a faster kick.

Also drop the anavar - odds are you’ll end up with win anyways as var is often faked.

Sub out the clomid and look into Toremiphene Citrate

I feel like the whole anavar almost always fake thing is blown out of proportion.
I would keep the Var and watch out for achy joints if you trust your source, if you don’t then it doesn’t make any more sense to get any other compound from it for that matter.
But you can always try winstrol first if that gives you peace of mind, otherwise just look for a good source.


I agree with this 100%

Yes it happens and when it does you hear the stories about it. If your getting from a vetted source (and I don’t mean your buddy at the gym who uses gear) it’s more then likely going tk be anavar if anything the bigger concern is about it being underdosed anavar.

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I think it’s pretty often anavar is just win when you get it from UGL’s. He could try it but if he’s trying var simply for the mild effects I’d be cautious. Could ask him how much they are charging and for what dosage, legit var is pretty pricey; even more so than good primo

What is the deal with anavar? I hear guys saying its a womens steroid, and I hear other guys saying its fucking elite for strength?

So which is it?

They are ignorant. There is really no such thing as a “woman’s steroid” var is often the steroid of choice used by woman due to the low androgenic rating but even then it is used in much lower doses and will still have negative side effects on the female traits.

At the same time I also wouldn’t go as far as saying this. Compared to drugs like halo, tren, drol, etc It is no where near as strong.

I think var gets a popular reputation for its ability to increase strength and help with your appearance while giving little to no negative side effects. I personally like it altho I’m not sure I will be using it again anytime soon only because it’s hard to Justify spending the money on it when I can use more effective compounds for less.

What’s the other option? Doctor shop until you find one willing to prescribe 10mg var tabs and then pay the inflated US big pharma price for them out of pocket?

Iv only used var from one ugl and I tested it so my experience has been good. Altho I have seen many independent test done on other domestic UGLs that have all came back solid for anavar.

Personally I think Finding a domestic ugl that has been in business for 5+ years that has a solid customer base with independent labs is the way to go. Ordering shit from pop up international sources that are constantly rebranding themselves or use multiple 3rd party distributors is asking for fake gear IMO

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Don’t most guys get their gear from UGLs? So you’re saying that unless you have a prescription for it you’re getting something else instead?

100% agree

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I try to use a local source. A person I can meet. A local source is less likely to sell you crap shit as word of mouth about a local source can put them out of business fast.