[quote]Cortes wrote:
Looks like you guys have already hashed this one out but I just wanted to add that I got my quickest mass and strength gains with test prop/tren ace/dbol. I used it before my show (pictures in my profile to put on 20 lbs before stripping it back down).
Went from something like 205 to 225 and then down to 195 for the show. You can see the results. (It should be noted that I changed my compound in the run up to the show, obviously, but this was used for the “bulk” portion of the cycle)[/quote]
Curious Cortes & Others who have endorsed tren over deca - have you guys done an equivalent Deca cycle to compare on an even footing? Not trying to stir up shit, just attempting to put both compounds on an even playing field. No doubt test prop, tren ace and dbol is a powerful and effective combination.
Curious Cortes & Others who have endorsed tren over deca - have you guys done an equivalent Deca cycle to compare on an even footing? Not trying to stir up shit, just attempting to put both compounds on an even playing field. No doubt test prop, tren ace and dbol is a powerful and effective combination.[/quote]
Nope. I’ve never really read a whole lot about deca that has made we want to incorporate it into any of my cycles. Funny, I hear a lot worse things overall about tren, but for some reason, the bad things I have heard about deca have kept me away from it, while the bad things I heard about tren never phased me; and I’m glad they didn’t, because I am not really very negatively affected by tren even at pretty high doses (over 600mg/w).
I don’t know though, I probably gravitated toward tren more due to its superior marketing; forbidden fruit style stuff like “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TREN!!!..but if you could…” and the like. When I had once used tren, I was pretty well sold with it being my favorite steroid (always stacked with test, of course). I always hear about it being a “cutting” steroid, whatever that means, but I am hear to tell you that with tren I am able to put on more mass more easily than with any other compound. It’s good, good stuff. For some people
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
So BR, you would not use deca whenever possible?
I guess if it really does suck that bad I’ll opt for tren next time around.[/quote]
Yes on not using it whenever possible (and assuming the possible joint factor that is true in some cases isn’t a factor), but in practice most seeking advice on cycles are in fact constrained in what is available to them. If what someone is able to get is say Deca and Dianabol, then it would not be helpful to say “it sucks, don’t use it” but rather the thing to do, IMO, is to advise the best way to operate under the constraints that exist.
Or say if someone already has a vial, might as well find a way to use it that will work out okay as opposed to tossing it – assuming one isn’t one of those that is more prone to problems with it.
Also it can be going a little too far to say that it sucks that bad. For an individual highly prone to depression or impotence from Deca then that is probably a reasonable way to put it, but most can use it at moderate dose and if the last injection is well before the end of the cycle and the overall cycle length is not too long, then recovery is usually not a problem. But it is not as if other Class I injectables could not be used instead, without such dose limitation and without having to be concerned about those negatives.
Just to clarify, are you talking about just nandrolone decanoate, because it seems a lot of the issues of deca arent as much of a concern on NPP, or at least as far as I have read about it. Or would it be fair to say that you guys are just not very “impressed” with nandrolone in general?
The adverse properties in question are due to the parent structure, not the ester.
NPP will clear faster, which is good, but depression and impotence issues are not, while it is present, different.
As to whether the same amount of nandrolone in the system for the same period of time can cause the same very long term inhibition problems that can happen with the decanoate, I don’t have direct evidence. I expect so, as in those sorts of cases lasting suppression after sustained Deca use continues long past levels having dropped to what should not be causing any direct-acting effect. I have to suspect that having progestagenic inhibition for a long period of time is what can cause the severe recovery problems.
Just no real reason to use a progestatenic androgen unless specifically seeking the effect on joints I think – except availability, if relevant.
Bill, is there any credibility to the idea that deca frequently re-esterifies? I would guess no, but you would know better than I. I have seen this concept posted in enough different boards that it seems to be an accepted idea (which obv doesn’t necessarily mean its true).
Absolutely credible that it occurs to some extent. I would think all non-17-alklyated androgens do this.
However, that it yields sustained blood levels significant in any way is I think refuted by the facts. The long-lasting blood levels that are detected are at really trace amounts.
(On the 17-alkylateds: I don’t know that it doesn’t happen with them either, but it might not, and probably happens much less, due to the 17-methyl providing steric (being in the way) interference in the area of the necessary reaction.)
Well just to add a bit to this thread my buddy is now 4 weeks in on a test/deca cycle and just incoroporated d bol as well.
First round with deca however have had a few rounds with tren before.
Main benefits of the deca are the lack of decreased appetite that tren causes and the joint lubrication. Unless you seem to have your AI dosage spot on libido issues arise on deca.
Regarding tren it can kill appetite and cardio in most. Night sweats can be a problem and overall quality of sleep is not near as good. Never had a single libido issue on tren before.
Both seem to produce good solid steady gains in both strength and muscle itself.
Well just to add a bit to this thread my buddy is now 4 weeks in on a test/deca cycle and just incoroporated d bol as well.
First round with deca however have had a few rounds with tren before.
Main benefits of the deca are the lack of decreased appetite that tren causes and the joint lubrication.
Unless you seem to have your AI dosage spot on libido issues arise on deca.
Regarding tren it can kill appetite and cardio in most. Night sweats can be a problem and overall quality of sleep is not near as good. Never had a single libido issue on tren before.
Both seem to produce good solid steady gains in both strength and muscle itself.
