28 Weeks Plus 5s Pro

Would you recommend doing 5sPro during the 28 Weeks of Training outlined in Beyond?

EDIT: may as well get some insights from either Jim or others who have done the 28 Weeks of Training program - what do you do after the main lifts? In another thread Jim said the additional sets after the 531 sets (for example the ladder or AMAP with the first set’s %) are the supplementary work. Does anyone do additional lifting after that or just call it a day? How do you set up your 28 Weeks of Training program?

The book says that assistance is whatever you want it to be - so 5s Pro falls under that category.

I’ve started a new round of the “28 weeks of training” (my third in as many years) and on my second cycle right now. I’m doing BBB as my assistance work after the main work for all cycles, like on Squat day I’m doing BBB dead lifts. I’ve also “thrown in some curls and triceps” work toward the end of my workout on upper body days and abs, hypers on lower body days; but it’s not even close to my focus. Just be sure to superset your assistance template with “some sort of tugging.” With dead lifts and squats I’m always doing either band pull aparts or chins, same with upper body; even during the main work I’ve got a band with me and do pull aparts, face pulls, etc…

Depending on mood, how I’m feeling and how much time I have dictates the “do I just call it a day.” I always do my 5/3/1 sets and reps and everything else is secondary. As Jim says, and I paraphrase:

“if you push the main work it will not matter how you do curls and face pulls.”

Just don’t try to do the 28 weeks of training and an accessory template without a good recovery protocol. You must eat like it’s your second job and rest like a rock. You also need to condition appropriately - I walk 2 miles a day at least 3 days a week and run hills twice a week.

One rule I give myself is if I can’t get my workout done under 60 minutes, I’ve programmed too much. A sample day of mine right now is this which I can get done in under an hour:

Squat Day:

agile 8
Squat 5/3/1 rep maxes + LSF AMRAP (super set w/ band pull aparts)
Dead Lift BBB 5x10 @ 50% (superset with chins or band pull aparts) - I don’t rest much between these sets at all for any of the days, 30-60 seconds tops, typically I do a set of 10 deads, then do 20 pull aparts then do another set of 10, etc…
Lying leg curl 3-5x10
Hyperextensions 2 drop sets, 1 straight set (ex drop set: 50# x amrap, 25# amrap, 0# amrap)
ab wheel 3-5 sets of 10-20 reps

edit: I don’t do rest pauses on lower body day, but doing rest pauses on upper body days for the LSF AMRAP)

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As i understand, it things like FSL and BBB are considered supplemental. I believe 5’s pro is another way to get in what’s considered the main work, not an accessory plan. So if you’re doing 5’s pro you are forgoing the standard 531+ . I can’t imagine it being a very good idea to do 531+ and then go back and doing 5’s pro right on top of it. I don’t have beyond sitting in front me so i can’t comment on the specifics, but from what i remember the main work is laid out for you, the supplemental work is probably laid out and the accessory stuff is likely up to you. The accessory work would include things like chins, curls, lunges, or whatever.

In Beyond, Jim states he replaced the SST with 5’s progression due to an accident. He also mentions it can be used with the main lifts as well. That language makes me think that it can either be accessory or main work. That’s why I said it could be used as assistance work.

So if you use 5 progression after 5/3/1 sets/reps in the 28 weeks of training, use it for assistance exercises after the main work - like incline bench, straight leg dead lifts, front squats etc… Find a weak point in your main work and attack it with assistance work using the 5s progression, SST, etc…

Just assistance after main lifts. The 28 week program IS a template and already has main and supplemental work. Assistance work means: chins, dips, rows, curls, abs, low back etc.

Squat (whatever the program says)
Dips x50
Chins x50
Leg raises x50
Appropiate conditioning

Keep it simple and kill the PR sets

Main lift: Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press, Press (Power Cleans fit here as well I think)

Supplemental lift: Main movement variation or additional sets of main movement that supplement the main lift. (BBB, SST, FSL, SSL, 5’s Pro)

Assistance: 2-3 exercises done for balance. The goal is often a total number of reps rather than certain weight. Bodyweight exercises fit in here well. A nice way to add some volume. (Usuallly row variations, chin-up variations, core, and/or single leg/arm)

See, this is where I’m confused. In Beyond the very first sentence int he 5’s Pro section says:

“I’ve used the 5’s Progression exclusively with my big assistance lifts for some time now, replacing the Simplest Strength Template”

He has since started calling SST, BBB, etc as “supplementary work” and everything else (single-joint exercises and abs) as “assistance”.

So the implication is that 5’s Pro is done after the main lifts as a supplementary (or assistance in his older terminology) lift.

The second paragraphs says:

However, the 5’s Progression can be used with the main lifts as well, and is an effective way to coach beginners.

Then he explains that it is most often used with beginners, those who are new to 531, and those coming back from an injury.

I’ve read on this forum that he uses 5’s Pro regularly for the main lifts nowadays. And that is what my question was referring to. I’ll rewrite it how I should have written it in the first place:

For 531 Pyramid and FSL can the main lift be done with 5’s Pro?

For example using 531 Pyramid

Week 1
First set 5 reps - Second set 5 reps - Third set 5+ - Fourth set 5 reps (same % as second set) - Fifth set (same % as as first set) 5+

Week 2 (using 3’s week %)
First set 5 reps - Second set 5 reps - Third set 5+ - Fourth set 5 reps (same % as second set) - Fifth set (same % as as first set) 5+

Week 3 (using the 531 week %)
First set 5 reps - Second set 5 reps - Third set 5+ - Fourth set 5 reps (same % as second set) - Fifth set (same % as as first set) 5+

I picked up on this as well. See my reply to turtletaub. In Beyond 5’s Pro could be used for the main lifts followed by other things

It is not clear whether it would be followed by supplementary lifts like SST or BBB or assistance work.

Neither Jim nor am I trying to be an a-hole here, but why don’t you just start training and let these things work themselves out? All 5s pro is is doing 5 reps. If you miss the amrap after doing 5s, then just do a fsl set amrap. Or crank it up further by doing them rest pause on the upper movements as described in 531 and DC training. Its really not that complicated once you start with the program. Hammer your main, do your supplementary work to compliment the main, do some accessory work, and do light conditioning on the 28 week plan.

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I don’t think that hearing “why not try it and see how things go?” would be interpreted as an “asshole” remark by a normal person. I would interpret that as a green light and trust you or Jim to say if there was anything horrifically misguided about doing 5’s Pro with a Pyramid.

I did the math and doing 531 Pyramid results in an amount of volume similar to any 5x5 programme like the Texas Method or Bill Starr’s old work which have variations that include pyramid pattern. The reason I asked is I don’t have much experience in programming so I don’t necessarily trust my instincts just yet.

I’m not used to online forums so apologies if I didn’t ask a clear question.

I think the question is fine, and I’m no expert in online information dissemination .
My experience is main lifts 531+ , or 5s pro, next
SST, BBB,BBS, 5s pro( if not used above), fsl, this can be done using the first movement e.g. BP 531 then FSL with BP or a supporting movement like CGBP after BP with say SST as the rep/set protocol ,next( if you want to keep going) would be say tricep press down as a single joint movement for say 50 total reps.
That’s all a lot of work.
So main exercise/movement , assistance followed by accessory. Big to small. Important to fluff

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I’m pretty sure, according to Beyond and this forum, that you do not AMRAP/PR sets in the standard 5’s Pro. It is 3x5, with increasing intensity. Using it without the + sets allows the lifter to build strength for a few cycles before setting some big PRs.

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5’s pro as supplemental, or accessory work, as with the SST or BBB, should be fine with the 28 days of training. An example for squat could look like this (substitute your exercises):

Main: Squat 5/3/1 rep maxes + LSF AMRAP (RP on upper body lifts, straight set on lower body)
supp: 5’s progression Straight leg deadlift (week 1 65% x 5, 75% x 5, 85% x5)
acc: Leg curls 3-5 sets of 10-20 reps
acc: Abs 3-5 sets of 10-20 reps

Just make sure when doing SST, BBB or 5’s progression as supplemental or accessory work, that it has a purpose or addresses a weak point. Only this will come with experience.

Yesterday was my deadlift day and it looked like this; keep in mind that I know my weaknesses through experience, so I’ve added front squats SST while also including back squats BBB. Some may say this is wrong, but it works for me and I’m simply applying the principles to what I can handle, recover from and progress. I do not include SST on the other 3 training days, just this one in particular. I do BBB for all other training days.

Deadlift 3’s week: 5/3/1 rep max + LSF AMRAP
Warm up
Bar X20
135 X10
170 X5
215 X5
255 X3

Work Sets
300 X3
340 X3
385 X9
300 X15

Front Squat SST
140 X8
170 X8
195 X6

Back Squat BBB
205x10 x5

Hanging Leg Raise 5x10
Bodyweight Bulgarian Split Squat 3 sets of 15 slow reps per leg

Wow that’s a lot of volume. I thought you meant you did SST on DL day and BBB on SQ day. And you did BSS. That’s the total leg volume I do all week:

This is what I’ve been doing for the past few months:

DL 531
Squat BBB
Hanging Leg Raise

SQ 531
DL or RDL 3x8
BSS 3x15
Ab roller

As of this week I started doing 531 Pyramid plus conditioning at the end - heavy sled drags and 60 second farmer’s walk. I cut out assistance work and cut the volume of supplementary work in half.

What does your squat day look like?

Did my 5s squat day this past Saturday, this weekend will be 3s; it’s only BBB.

Squat 5’s week: 5/3/1 Rep max + LSF AMRAP
Warp up
Bar X20

Work Sets
I usually take 5-6 minutes rest between the PR set and the widowmaker.

Dead lift BBB
215x10 x5

3 Leg Curl extended sets (as described in growth factor legs by coach Thib) - I just love the way my hamstrings feel the day after this lol…
3 hyperextension drop sets
3-5 sets of 10-20 reps ab wheel - usually superset this with mobility/stretching like Agile 8. Like 2 mobility drills then 1 set of ab wheel.

Thanks for sharing - we’re not too far off in terms of volume. That’s a great idea you have in doing mobility work between sets of abs. I usually just stand there.