27 Years Old and Feel Like an Old Man

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
1

Let me start off by saying I don’t know if this is a testosterone/hormone replacement issue or not, but I have posted here before and I know there are many knowledgeable guys who might be able to lead me in the right direction.

I posted here about a year ago with a similar issue; here is the thread:

Purechance and ksman were particularly helpful, so thank you once again.

The problem, unfortunately, is that I haven’t really made any progress since the original post above. I think I’ve regressed to some degree, in fact.

*Just to avoid confusion if you haven’t clicked through yet above, the issue wasn’t low testosterone. At the time I was dealing with a constellation of symptoms that I thought were related to an anxiety/depression disorder, but in truth may have been thryoid related or even a side effect of a medication (Effexor) that I was taking for panic attacks and general anxiety.

So here I am today and I am dealing with a lot of the same issues I experienced a year ago: hot flashes, chills, sweating (was diagnosed with hyperhidrosis secondary to anxiety but I think the Effexor may have set this off), burning skin (a new symptom that is extremely distressing and I feel may be caused by neuro damage/protracted withdrawal from Effexor - which I have been off of for ten months now), extreme intolerance to heat (I live in AZ), malaise, muscle cramps, soreness (not DOMS, more like paralysis at times), brain fog, spaciness, intense food cravings, syncope feeling, muscle twitching, chest pain, palpitations, dry skin, scalp dermatitis (not diagnosed but I think that’s going on for the past two years but much worse lately), hair that has changed from dark brown and hyrdrated to VERY dry light brown/bronze/red with a few greys and even WHITES, etc. etc.

The list goes on and on, but I figure I’ll stop there for now and fill in more info in my responses so I don’t make this the longest post ever. I will add that there are times that I feel OK, and I can have some good workouts, although lately these physical issues have been so pronounced that I haven’t worked out for several weeks. I also think that the days where the physical problems are not as noticeable are not “counted” in a way because psychiatric problems take there place. As an aside, I know this is not paxilprogress, but I’m in a place now where I am saying FUCK the drugs (and FUCK most of the ignorant doctors as well) and am seeing that some of my problems here - both mental and physical - may have been caused by/exacerbated by various prescription medications.

I am by no means an expert on thyroid or endocrine issues but I think that there is a high likelihood that there is something going on related to these. I was also recently diagnosed with sleep apnea (5 apneas per hour - which just qualifies me to have the diagnosis, but it may be more of less severe since it was only one test), which my doctor has said can potentially cause all of these symptoms, especially since I may have had it for years up to this point. My other HUGE concern though is that I have potentially permanently altered my neurochemistry, and/or nervous system with Effexor and/or other SSRIs that I have taken on and off over the past 6 years.

After last October when the I started the above thread, I did OK for a few months but then developed heart palpitations last spring (2011) shortly after weaing off Effexor. Since then all hell has broken lose and I’ve had at least a couple of blood tests, an MRI and an EEG to try to get to the bottom of this.

I will dig up the blood results from last spring/summer and post them here later but I do have some numbers from the most recent test done earlier this month. It was done by the neurologist who was testing thyroid stuff (although maybe not very thoroughly) and also MS, Lupus, etc.

The MRI and EEG came back normal, which I guess just means I don’t have a tumor. Great, but they don’t really have a way of understanding brain/neurotransmitter chemistry to see how I’m doing in that department, apparently. In any case here are a couple figures to get started with:

(most recent)

TSH: 3.26 Range .45-4.5 *
T4 FREE NON-DIALYSIS: 1.3 Range .8-1.7 *

Folate 17.9 Range + 7.2
Glucose 91 (fasted) Range 65-99
Calcium 9.6 Range 8.7-10.5
Hemoglobin A1C 5.4
Estimated Average Glucose (EAG) 108

(Doc didn’t say anything about fasted glucose but seemed a little surprised by EAG. Didn’t say it was an issue but I know I’ve been eating like crap lately - another wonderful thing I’ve got going is intense junk food cravings - so I didn’t think it was a problem either)

(Didn’t list but B12 was in the low 800s - it’s always been good at least since I’ve paid attention to it starting 2-3 years ago)

  • If I am mistaken those numbers suck yea? At least the TSH I would think. But of course the doctor said I am “in range.” Granted, it was a NEURO but still. (there were some other numbers in that test but I just listed what I thought was relevant - will list results from a few months back as well)

FYI my current supplement regimen:

3-6g fish oil per day
400mg magnesium per day (recently)
4000 IU Vit D per day
1000mg Vit C per day
300-900mg ALA (off and on)
2-3g CLA per day (off an on)
Multi-Vit
Garlic Extract 1500mg per day
Vitamin B6?
Optimum Nutrition Pro Complex one shake per day on average

In any case my next steps were going to be to try to find a new endocrinologist since the one I went to off an on over the past year or two doesn’t seem to be aggressive enough with spotting hypos and to see a rhuematologist to see if they have any ideas. I have also thought about finding an MD that is also a naturapath.

Any insight into what could be going on with me??

I am trying to keep a level head about this and systematically cover all the bases but it’s getting pretty debilitating, and it’s pretty overwhelming when the one thing that gives me a break from this crap (working out) becomes something I can’t do for fear that after a heavy leg workout I’ll wake up and literally not be able to move the next day (aching, weak, almost paralyzed muscles) and feel like I have the Flu! (and I never get “ill” in the traditional sense, so there is something more sick and twisted at play here)

I have gotten pretty damn distraught lately because of the thought of iotragenic problems from Effexor or others, but it’s dawned on me that if the problem(s) that it (may have) caused is something I can spot, i.e. hypo - and I can fix that independently - then all hope may not be lost.

At this point I do think all of this is related to one or a combination of the following: sleep apnea, hypothyroidism, protracted withdrawal/permanent damage from meds, or, alas, the anxiety it self. Overzealous psychiatrists have told me that young men CAN get hot flashes and such from anxiety - even when not “feeling” anxious - but when it’s accompanied by tingling, burning skin and a constant infernal hot feeling throughout my body that DOES NOT let up, I just don’t buy it…especially when there are so many other problems that I don’t think can be attributed to a simple anxiety disorder…

I appreciate any advice/insight anyone can share. I’ll post more blood work and as I alluded to above I’ve had another couple dozen symptoms other than those so I will try to think and list those.

THANKS!

2

Just went through and reviewed the new guys sticky again and I’m gonna post this in my original thread.

3

Nevermind, my old thread says “topic is locked”. I’ll just make this the new thread the. Lemme save everyone the hassle though and copy and paste my op from before:

I’m a 26 year old male who just got a blood test done because of symptoms related to stress/anxiety (I’ve had panic disorder for five years and depression on and off - currently take 37.5 mg of Effexor)

I think the blood test was ordered because of how strange my symptoms seemed. I had sweating (hyperhydrosis) chills, hot flashes, etc. that would just come out of nowhere. The doc I think suspected low test and high estrogen or maybe a thyroid issue…

In any case, the test came back “normal”. They tested a few different hormones (I don’t remember all of them -I was in a hurry so I didn’t get much info from the nurse who called) but I was most curious about my T-levels.

Test levels (total): 519ng/dl (range 200-800)

How “healthy” is this level really? (note: the test was done in the afternoon and I felt like crap physically when I got the blood draw)

I hear a lot that 800-900ng/dl is more ideal for someone my age?

(Sidenote: I had a full endocrine panel done this past February because of similar symptoms:
Total test was 751 ng/dl (range 300-1000ng/dl)
Free test was 153 (don’t remember the measurement units but the ceiling for this was 155 so it was quite high)
Everything else was normal, although vitamin D was a little low (29)

Are my levels lower than they were before or not really because of the differing ranges for each test?

Other stats:
5’9" 185# probably around 10% bf, maybe leaner…
I would say my strength levels are respectable even by T-Nation standards…
Energy is OK. Sex drive is Ok (normally I am VERY horny 24/7 but the dose of effexor I am taking is affecting my libido a bit I would say)
Diet is moderately healthy, never super strict…

My concern may be unnecessary, but I appreciate any feedback as the docs tend not to really divulge too much info that is actually USEFUL (not to mention pdocs don’t ever seem too think of HRT as a viable option)
thanks

4

yes. it sounds like a possible adrenal/thyroid issue. I would stay away from the hormone connection at this point.

You really need more tests tell for sure.

Saliva Cortisol (at 4 times during the day) - Quest has a kit you can get.
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
Aldosterone
D25-OH (vitamin D3)
Pregnenolone

have you read about the sea salt tests?

have you checked out the stopthethyroidmadness website?

5

Thanks for the reply Pure.

I figured I would need more testing. Anything I should ask for specifically from the new endo that I find? I was going to pick a doc that’s in network but other than that I don’t have much way of determining before my visit how progressive they are in their approach (if I do in fact have a thyroid issue). Do people typically just shop around until they find someone who will RX?

Is the saliva something that I can have done at a lab when I get a blood draw or is just easier to go with the kit?

In response to your two questions, no I have not read about the sea salt tests - I’ll Google here in a second; and yes I have looked briefly at stopthethyroidmadness website. I have not really delved in yet but I found a long list of hypo symptoms that I thought was interesting. Also when perusing, one other thing stuck out. They mentioned what to look for to know you are recovering. It was a list of three things and included:

  1. The total alleviation of symptoms
  2. Consistently higher (normal) body temperature - I think in the low to mid 90’s at least on average?
  3. A T3 or Free T3? (I don’t know the difference) that is towards the higher end of the range

I’m assuming this is also with a decrease in TSH levels (or course?), just not sure what’s ideal.

Not that it matters, but I’ve developed this theory as of late that the system has been engineered in a way so as not to diagnose the majority of hypos so that they can be instead diagnosed with other conditions that require more expensive RXs and big pharma can rake in the dough. Hypo symptoms mimic anxiety/depression to a ridiculous extent. Kinda just spit ballin’ but anyway…

6

EDIT: low to mid *98’s rather on that ideal body temp

7

So I had an appointment today with a doctor who was able to get me in pretty quickly. I simply Googled “thyroid doctor” and my city or something like that and his site came up. He is actually a chiropractor but has a number of different areas of expertise, apparently. At first I WAS a little skeptical because, well, he’s a chiro, but then I thought I have nothing to lose (except cash outta my pocket of course…). His site said that he focuses on people who are undiagnosed hypos, hashimotos, people with those same symptoms/diagnoses on RXs that aren’t working, or people who don’t have a clue what is wrong with them but feel like crap and are dysfunctional.

The receptionist actually said she had seen him because she was on meds for Hashimotos and wasn’t feeling good. Whatever she did with him worked I guess because she said she is much improved… (she seemed very genuine but I’m not putting a lot of faith in her testimony at this point for obvious reasons)

I brought in all of my previous lab work and test results. He didn’t notice anything that felt was a red flag but he did do an extensive neuro exam, asked a lot of questions and seemed like an intelligent, dedicated guy.(not that that means shit, necessarily)

He said something about my having an imbalance between the right and left sides of my body (balance was off on one side as was proprioception - it was easier for me to touch something without looking at it with my left hand than it was with my right - and my blood pressure was higher on my right side…is that even possible??..he did a couple of exercises with me and then retested BP and it was made? more equal apparently)

He didn’t verbalize what he thought might be going on other than that it’s related in some way to the autonomic nervous system (he did some some more in depth, intelligent shit but I can’t quote him). He said that while sleep apnea and/or sleep deprivation could play a role, guys in Vietnam experienced ridiculous sleep deprivation and didn’t have half the symptoms I do… (continued…)

8

…continued from above…

So he ordered blood work for the following:

(coudn’t read the writing for a few of these for the blood draw order)

  • Thyroid panel/TSH

  • TPO Ab

  • Thyroid Antithyroglobulan(?) Ab (or A5?)

  • 250 HD

  • 1-250 HD (or HB)

  • Magnesium

  • Comp Metabolic Panel

  • Lipid Panel

  • CBC Diff w Pit

  • Hemoglobin A1C

  • Triiodothyronine (T3)

The other thing he gave me was two different packets of six pills each that I am supposed to take 3 times per day for two days each. He said to watch for a positive, negative, or neutral result and let him know. Said not to think too much about what is in them (even though it’s listed on the back) and just take them. Of course I did research and they seem to be used for immune system testing.

They are both made by a company called apexenergetics and one is “X-Viromin (K-31)” and the other is “X-FLM (K-37)”

So that’s where I’m at. Will get the blood draw Wednesday and see him the following Friday again. Felt decent at the appointment in terms of confidence in being there, but now I’m ruminating about it. As much as I want to deal with a practicioner who is open minded and progressive with treatment, I also don’t want to deal with a bunch of bunk crap supplements or diets if I would in fact do better on RXs, assuming it’s a thyroid issue here. Google around a little bit and there a lot of people out there talking smack about chiropractors getting rich off of their “alternative” treatments when they’re no better than the traditional practitioners…

Anybody out there have any thoughts? Does this seem like a smart path to take? I just threw $200 at this guy and if I’m wasting my money I’ll just spring for a good endo who’ll do the trick and is covered by my insurance.

9

Haven’t been on here in ages, been working a lot lately and when I’m not working it seems like I just crash out. Haven’t lifted since the beginning of September. I’ve been walking lately, but even trying to run here and there on the treadmill results in acute muscle cramps and pain directly after, followed later by what seems like extreme extended DOMS. Energy and motivation are shot…

Wanted to update anybody who has any input on the blood results and what happened with the chiro I saw. It’d be nice to hear some opinions but either way I’m gonna try to use thread at least as record for myself, since I think you end up going in circles with this stuff unless you really map things out.

Going almost a couple months back I got the blood tests that I alluded to above. Here are the results:

CBC, WHC, RBC, Hemoglobin, etc. all within normal ranges

Lipid panel:

Cholesterol - 211, ref range <200
Triglyceride - 96, ref range <150
HDL cholesterol - 46, ref range >39
Non-HDL cholesterol - 165H, ref range <160
LDL cholesterol, calc. - 146H, ref range <130

Glucose - 87, ref range 65-99 (fasting almost 18 hour prior to blood draw)

T3 Total - 123, ref range 80-200

Thyroglobulin Antibodies - <20 ref range <41

Estimated Average Glucose (EAG) - 111

Thyroid panel,TSH:

T3 uptake - 29.5, ref range 23.4 - 42.7
T4 (thyroxine) - 10.5, ref range 4.5 - 12.5
T7 index - 3.1, ref range 1.2 - 4.3

TSH 2.25, ref range .45-4.5

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy, Total - 65.7, ref range 30.1 - 100.0

Continued…

10

continued from above…

So, it was a chiropractor who had ordered the above lab work. He went over it with me and said that the thyroid was ok according to these tests. Now, the reason I went to see him in the first place was that he is a guy here in my town who I guess dominates keywords for “thyroid doctors scottsdale” and I found his site after thinking that was what was going on here.

Because I must have subconsciously assumed him to be an authority I didn’t argue with the guy. He didn’t really go into what he thought was going on (which looking back, I realize it was stupid for me to ask more questions) but he started by getting me on an elimination diet, with the main rub being that it was gluten free. He also gave me several supplements to take, one being a topical antioxidant cream and the other two related to gut repair.

I did my best to stick with the gluten free diet but it was bloody difficult, both because I just threw myself into after being pretty unrestricted diet wise and also in terms of food preparation and the sheer amount of foods that I suddenly had to avoid. In any case, even after a few days of sticking to it, cravings diminished and the muscle aches, cramps, fatigue, and strange neurological stuff seemed to abate.

I’ve since discontinued seeing the chiro as the guy didn’t take insurance, was ridiculously expensive and I now think the dude was kind of a sleazeball just tryin to make a dime. I know the gluten free approach and the supplements can help, but I had a hunch that maybe I really do actually have a thryoid issue that this guy wasn’t directly addressing with medication or other approaches as he should have been? I could see him pushing his supplements and elimination diet on everyone regardless of the root cause.

I’m still considering adopting the gluten free approach for at least a good month to give it a real shot but I’ve gotta buckle down and plan for it and I think once the holidays are finished would be a better time for that. I’ve got an appointment coming up with a rhuematologist coming up in Jan to get another opinion here.

Still thinking that I should also try to find a liberal minded endo that would give me Armour? if I need something like that. Gonna post on thyroidboards.com as well and see what I can come up with.

11

[quote]PureChance wrote:
yes. it sounds like a possible adrenal/thyroid issue. I would stay away from the hormone connection at this point.

You really need more tests tell for sure.

Saliva Cortisol (at 4 times during the day) - Quest has a kit you can get.
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
Aldosterone
D25-OH (vitamin D3)
Pregnenolone

have you read about the sea salt tests?

have you checked out the stopthethyroidmadness website?[/quote]

Ok, so after waiting to get in to see my internist and insisting that I need more blood work done, I finally have some more results and I think I’ve got most of the results I need. Was unable to get cortisol done yet as I guess I might have to go to the hospital or seek out another facility as the original lab didn’t perform the one I needed…

Results: (1/20/12) Blood draw was around noon…

TSH - 2.77 (.45-4.5)
T4 Free non-dialysis - 1.3 (.8-1.7)
IGF-1, ECL - 282 (63-373ng/ml)
Z-score - 1.2 (-2.0 - +2.0)
DHEA sulfate - 344 (280 - 640)
Ferritin - 231 (18-370) ng/ml)
Growth hormone - <0.1 (<3.0 ng/ml)
DHEA LC/MS/MS - 525 (61-1636 ng/ml)
Aldosterone LC/MS/MS - <1 (ng/dl)
T3 Free Non-dialysis - 3.9 (2.0 - 4.8 ng/ml)
Pregnenolone LC/MS/MS - 43 (12-208 ng/dl)
Vitamin D 25-Hydroxy (Total, D2, D3) by LC/MS/MS:
Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total - 30 (30-100 ng/ml)
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3 - 30 (ng/ml)
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2 - <4 (ng/ml)
Itact PTH - 17 (15-65 pg/ml)
Testosterone, Total - 629 (250-1100 ng/dl)
Testosterone, Free - 157.8 (35.0-155.0 pg/ml) H

Notes: almost 28 years old, still experiencing similar symptoms to what I mentioned above. Latelyy more tachycardia (generally and specifically when exercising the pulse goes haywire), some exercise intolerance as far as muslce pain etc and some psychological symptoms (fatigue, extreme anxiety, various somatic complaints)

Rheumatologist who I saw before the bloodwork was completed diagnosed “central sensitization syndrome” and recommended SSRIS for potential HP axis dysfunction/ serotonin signalling problems that they think are the culprit with that. Also encouraged me to make sure the bloodwork didn’t reveal any adrenal/thyroid problems that I could treat concurrently to attack this thing from a few angles if necessary, certainly until I see some improvement.

The MD said the blood work was fine, the nurse said the Free test was a little high but still close to range. Didn’t get any more feedback otherwise…

If anyone has any insight or can help interpret those numbers it would greatly appreciated.

12

I realize looking back that I did not necessarily include all of my stats above. (or for what I did include if you’ve taken time to read the whole thread it will be a reminder)

-age - almost 28years

-height - 5’8-9"

-waist - 34"

-weight - 187 fasted after a few hours in AM, 192 towards end of day

-describe body and facial hair - moderately heavy body hair everywhere except on back, average beard and beardline height

-describe where you carry fat and how changed - fat around anterior waist has increased as well as low to mid back

-health conditions, symptoms [history] - panic disorder and mild depression diagnosed at age 21, mild sleep apnea at age 26, “central sensitization sydnrome” age 27 (present)

-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever - I believe I have listed all of my supplements above. I have currently not been taking ANY supplements. RX: current .5mg alprazolam as needed. 25mg atenolol as needed (for hyperhidrosis, although currently self prescribed for tachy/palpitations/ somatic complaints) Past RX: various ssris up to moderate to high doses (celexa, lexapro, zoloft, paxil), buproprion moderate dose. All have been cycled on and off over the past 6-7 years

-lab results with ranges:

TSH - 2.77 (.45-4.5)
T4 Free non-dialysis - 1.3 (.8-1.7)
IGF-1, ECL - 282 (63-373ng/ml)
Z-score - 1.2 (-2.0 - +2.0)
DHEA sulfate - 344 (280 - 640)
Ferritin - 231 (18-370) ng/ml)
Growth hormone - <0.1 (<3.0 ng/ml)
DHEA LC/MS/MS - 525 (61-1636 ng/ml)
Aldosterone LC/MS/MS - <1 (ng/dl)
T3 Free Non-dialysis - 3.9 (2.0 - 4.8 ng/ml)
Pregnenolone LC/MS/MS - 43 (12-208 ng/dl)
Vitamin D 25-Hydroxy (Total, D2, D3) by LC/MS/MS:
Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total - 30 (30-100 ng/ml)
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3 - 30 (ng/ml)
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2 - <4 (ng/ml)
Itact PTH - 17 (15-65 pg/ml)
Testosterone, Total - 629 (250-1100 ng/dl)
Testosterone, Free - 157.8 (35.0-155.0 pg/ml) H

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets] - one to two protein shakes per day. some days lean meat, veggies, and starchy carb for dinner. As of late, I follow this template but much more junk food is layered on top: coffee (sometimes latte, diet soda throughout day, subway sandwhiches, heavy starchy carbs late night with relatively low activity levels currenlty. Food cravings intense at times esp for simple sugars.

-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training] - I realize now that I probably pushed the envelope with training for quite some time. Typical training was 4-6 days per week weight training with a moderate volume hypertrophy routine taking most sets to failure, occasionally using supersets or other exhaustion techniques, tagging various types of cardio at the end, often while sleep deprived (4-6 hours per night) Lately I look back and wonder why I didn’t catch on as I am a CPT and think I’m smart enough not to fuck up in that regard. Might also be that my perspective has shifted and imagining those workout now is mentally daunting and they might NOT have been physically so at the time.

-testes ache, ever, with a fever? - No

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed - I have noticed either moderate morning erections and/or intermittent morning erections over the past 6-7 years. I think there has been a change since late teens to early twenties, I am just not sure if poor sleep patterns and/or ssri use played a role (hardly got morning wood while on SSRIS - or didn’t notice it)

13

hmmmm, you have high TSH, but good FT4 and FT3… so that leaves high Reverse T3 and possible low Cortisol issues as the most likely cause.

you Vitamin D is also terrible (70+ is ideal). You really need to start taking 5,000-6,000iu D3 (liquid/gelcap form) daily.

you may want to check out and read through this site → thyroid-rt3.com

14

Would the high free testosterone be a sign that my cortisol is low? I know it is much probably much more complicated than that but I thought they were antagonistic. Also figured it’s just the way my body sorts of out the test and maybe I should draw no conclusions there…

Vitamin D was 65 back in November about one to two months since I had stopped regular supplementation, averaging 4000iu, and 5-6000iu prior to that for a period of at least a year. I was amazed that it had plummeted so quickly, but it’s reminded me that I should supplement indefinitely I suppose.

Always appreciate the input Pure, I’ll take a look at that site. Generally speaking, would you say I should hold off on digging deeper with the thyroid stuff and take the SSRI and dose with Vit D, or do you think it’s worthwhile for me to get a few more numbers (i.e. cortisol) ?

Thanks!

15

[quote]PureChance wrote:
hmmmm, you have high TSH, but good FT4 and FT3… so that leaves high Reverse T3 and possible low Cortisol issues as the most likely cause.

you Vitamin D is also terrible (70+ is ideal). You really need to start taking 5,000-6,000iu D3 (liquid/gelcap form) daily.

you may want to check out and read through this site → thyroid-rt3.com[/quote]

Also just skimmed over these labs above as well as the ones from before and I don’t think I got RT3 done at all. I thought I had the doc run everything (minus the cortisol, which the lab didn’t do) but I left that out I guess - I see that it was on the original list of things to test.

Any thoughts on the GH levels? The doc said they were fine being that low, and she was actually pretty convincing but still feel like I’ve gotta get that second opinion.

16

Sorry. I have little to no knowledge regarding GH or igf-1 levels.

antidepressents are the standard fall back for what seems like every single doc. What they are really saying is - I don’t know what is wrong with you, and I don’t have the time to look into it nor do I have any inclination to even care about you, so why don’t you go on this antidepressent that the drug reps have told works miracles and leave my office so that I can make space for a new wallet (oops, I mean patient).

If it was me, and I had TSH of 2.77 and prior 3+ readings, I would dig deeper. Cortisol has a huge effect on thyroid and hormones.

cortisol works along side T and FT3. not enough for thyroid = more RT3. not enough for T = increased aromatase to E2.

there are many other things you can test like E2, SHBG and if nothing else explains your symptoms you can look at possibly Cortisol Binding Globulins and Thyroid Binding Globulin.

17

[quote]SHARKinafishbowl wrote:
Would the high free testosterone be a sign that my cortisol is low? I know it is much probably much more complicated than that but I thought they were antagonistic. Also figured it’s just the way my body sorts of out the test and maybe I should draw no conclusions there…

Vitamin D was 65 back in November about one to two months since I had stopped regular supplementation, averaging 4000iu, and 5-6000iu prior to that for a period of at least a year. I was amazed that it had plummeted so quickly, but it’s reminded me that I should supplement indefinitely I suppose.

Always appreciate the input Pure, I’ll take a look at that site. Generally speaking, would you say I should hold off on digging deeper with the thyroid stuff and take the SSRI and dose with Vit D, or do you think it’s worthwhile for me to get a few more numbers (i.e. cortisol) ?

Thanks! [/quote]

Boron is supposed to help with Vit D absorption. Not sure that absorption is the correct word, but it’s supposed to make supplementation more effective if you are having to take large doses.

18

If your cortisol is low (getting a bit ahead of ourselves here but what the hell) you can check progesterone. If progesterone is low, you can check pregnenolone.

This shouldn’t distract you from sorting possible thyroid issues, but if you are getting tests run anyway it might provide a clearer picture of what’s going on.

If pregnenolone is considerably low, you might try supplementing it. If pregnenolone is fine but progesterone is low, you might consider supplementing progesterone and re-checking it along with cortisol. If progesterone is fine and cortisol is low, you have other issues.

19

All of these things are helpful - thanks for all of the input.

It sounds like cortisol it the biggest and most significant thing I should look into. So, if I’m not mistaken, cortisol is antagonistic to RT3 and also to “T” (you mean Testosterone here?). If my cortisol is too low, could it be lowering my total testosterone which is causing my free test to increase?

dhickey - I haven’t checked progesterone recently, but I just checked pregnenolone. It was listed above I believe:

Pregnenolone LC/MS/MS - 43 (12-208 ng/dl)

So is that considered low? Should I check progesterone just the same?

To you guys or anyone else: if one is having these somatic complaints but also a history of panic attacks and other psychological reactions, how often do you find that the root cause is related to thyroid/adrenal dysfunction? Are some doctors correct in assuming that psychotropic RXs are the main (or at least adjunctive) treatment and that the problem lies in serotonin metabolism or HP axis dysfunction? How often is thyroid dysfunction affecting multiple systems to such a degree?

To that point, there is a phenomenal website I found recently www.definitivemind.com. It’s run by a Dr. Marianco and he goes into pretty decent depth about this stuff. He might post on the forums here as Marianco or something like that - I know I’ve seen him online, can’t remember where though.

20

Not sure if this is “bro science” or legitimate, but from another forum:

Cortisol Deficiency: allergies, fatigue, muscle aches and pains, feeling cold, morning sluggishness, low sex drive, feel unable to cope, feel ?burned out?, impaired memory, symptoms of poor thyroid function, low blood pressure, dark circles under eyes, heart palpitations, anxiety

Cortisol Excess: irritability, feel ?tired but wired?, weight gain around waist, sleep disturbances, bone loss, high blood pressure, loss of muscle mass, insulin resistance, low sex drive, loss of scalp hair, anxiety