T Nation

27 Year Old Getting Dialed In - Low Sex Drive, Fatigue, Trouble Sleeping

#42

I’d actually just reduce the test amount a little. How about 150 or 140 weekly? Your estrogen will likely lower and that is likely what’s causing your sleep issues.

And your comment about sex with your gf a COUPLE TIMES A DAY is making us all hate you. So stop. :wink:

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#43

Am still jealous u get road head…

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#44

Her specialty.

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#45

@charlie12

Are you saying that E2 can start going down on its own past 6 weeks, even though its currently elevated somewhat high? Is there any literature or experiences that can verify this? I am curious to see it, if so.

On Oct 23rd my protocol (6 weeks in) was 120mg Test weekly and my values were: Total Test - 663 ng/dL; Free Test - 163 pg/mL; Estradiol 34 pg/mL (bloodwork done right before next injection).

On Dec 3rd my protocol (6 weeks in) was 160mg Test weekly with 0.5mg Adex weekly and my values were: Total Test - 708 ng/dL; Free Test - 159 pg/mL; Estradiol 49 pg/mL (bloodwork done right before next injection).

More Testosterone can be better, but it depends on each individuals body. I know keeping a high-normal Testosterone level can help a lot with reducing body fat and muscle mass retention (I’m probably over-simplifying it).

My body fat is currently at 26% (as measured by a Dexa-Scan). I know if I get body fat down to 10-12% that I will likely reduce my need for an AI as well (less aromatase enzyme).

#46

My libido is still mostly dead (I don’t get horny, although I appreciate attractive women). I can get mostly hard and orgasm, but it is not intense and fulfilling like it was when I was younger (I know 27 isn’t that old lol). I am gonna start experimenting with rings, but I digress.

#47

It really sounds like arousal and not libido. Remember, they’re two separate things.

Forget rings man. Gets some pde5s. SO cheap online.

#48

@charlie12 @adventurearchit

That info physiologic posted was in response to a question I had about trying to relax before sex. I get so excited/anxious it’s almost like I have too much adrenaline and it causes issues.

I can say that both the phosphatidylserine and magnesium do help to relax some, but really put me to sleep. I take about an hour before bed and I’m usually out like a light.

#49

How do most recent thyroid blood tests look? Any other thoughts or suggestions?

#50

Bump. Retesting in 3 or so weeks.

#51

I am now in week 9 of the new TRT protocol (80mg SubQ injections with 30 gauge, 5/16" insulin syringes twice a week; 160mg weekly along with 0.5mg Arimidex per injection; 1.0mg Arimidex per week).

I still occasionally have issues with getting restful sleep and fatigue during the day, but it is nowhere like it used to be. Phenibut and Tryptophan both seem to help with the sleep issues. I also still have some trouble with anxiety, social anxiety, and feeling irritated, but it is no more than 50% of the time and seems to continue getting better. Also started having flareups of acne on my back (never had this as a teenager), but this is cosmetic and seems to be helped with tea tree oil cleaner twice a day.

I am down to 161 pounds with 16% BF measured via BIA (was 186 pounds with 26% BF measured via Dexa Scan around last blood work; Dec 2018), and will be doing a follow up Dexa Scan next weekend.

Doctor and I will be rerunning blood work in April and will lower dosages if Total and Free testosterone come back high again (he wanted to lower it now, but I want to make sure with follow up blood work). Blood work was run 12 hours AFTER the last scheduled injection was supposed to take place (Fri morning; normally inject Mon AM and Thurs PM).

Current blood tests for the 160mg Test C with 1mg Adex weekly protocol below:

CHEMICAL NAME CHEMICAL LEVEL LAB REFERENCE RANGE DATE & TIME COLLECTED
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 1401 ng/dL H 264 - 916 ng/dL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
FREE TESTOSTERONE 29.9 pg/mL H 9.3 – 26.5 pg/mL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
ESTRADIOL 45.0 pg/mL H 7.6 – 42.6 pg/mL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
WBC 8.7 x10E3/uL 3.4 - 10.8 x10E3/uL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
RBC 5.67 x10E6/uL 4.14 - 5.80 x10E6/uL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
HEMOGLOBIN 16.0 g/dL 13.0 - 17.7 g/dL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
HEMATOCRIT 47.8 % 37.5 - 51 % 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
MCV 84 fL 79 – 97 fL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
MCH 28.2 pg 26.6 – 33.0 pg 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
MCHC 33.5 g/dL 31.5 – 35.7 g/dL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
RDW 13.9 % 12.3 – 15.4 % 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
PLATELET COUNT 223 x10E3/uL 150 - 379 x10E3/uL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
NEUTROPHILS 79 % ? 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
LYMPHS 14 % ? 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
MONOCYTES 6 % ? 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
EOS 1 % ? 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
BASOS 0 % ? 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
NEUTROPHILS (ABSOLUTE) 6.8 x10E3/uL 1.4 – 7.0 x10E3/uL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
LYMPHS (ABSOLUTE) 1.2 x10E3/uL 0.7 – 3.1 x10E3/uL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
MONOCYTES (ABSOLUTE) 0.5 x10E3/uL 0.1 – 0.9 x10E3/uL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
EOS (ABSOLUTE) 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0 – 0.4 x10E3/uL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
BASO (ABSOLUTE) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 – 0.2 x10E3/uL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
IMMATURE GRANULOCYTES 0 % ? 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
IMMATURE GRANULOCYTES (ABSOLUTE) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 – 0.1 x10E3/uL 02/08/2019 9:45 AM
#52

A 45 estradiol would cause the symptoms you are describing in myself. Anastrozole has a half life of about 30-50 hours so if you’re clearing it out more quickly, that would mean your estrogen levels are changing and that could cause these symptoms to come and go.

Anastrozole by itself could be causing anxiety and decrease bone density.

You are having to increase the need for AI’s the higher your Total T, you may not even need an AI if you came down to a more reasonable level. Free T converts to E2 and your Free T is over the ranges.

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#53

@systemlord

Is Estradiol at 45 really an issue with such high Total and Free Testosterone though? I thought it had more to do with ratios than an exact “sweet spot” number like 21. This blood work was about 4 days after my last injection and dose of Adex (Mon AM).

I see what you’re saying though - I think by lowering T per injection, I could reduce the E2 and also reduce the need for Adex (or even eliminate it completely as my BF is starting to get lean).

I think that I might go down to 140mg a week starting in April and reassess from there - my E2 was 31 when I was on 120mg a week (with no AI), might even be the best dose now due to lower BF (and it continues to drop).

#54

Twelve hours after injection, those values are perfectly fine. However, the real issue is how are you feeling. Sounds as though you are fine.

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#55

@highpull

This was 4 days (about 98 hours) after the last injection. The one that was supposed to happen Thurs PM was done Fri AM after the blood draw.

Overall yes, I would say I am doing much better on TRT. Not 100%, but it likely never will be.

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#57

Sorry, I didn’t catch that. Regardless, I hope you do not have to reduce the dose, provided you continue to do well. Your free test is slightly above range and will not hurt you. It is about your symptoms and not the number. Good luck going forward.

#58

No. Have you tried NOT using an AI at all? Just a thought.

#59

I am now in week 17-18 of the new TRT protocol (80mg SubQ injections with 30 gauge, 5/16" insulin syringes twice a week; 160mg weekly along with 0.5mg Arimidex per injection; 1.0mg Arimidex per week).

I still occasionally have issues with getting restful sleep and fatigue during the day, but it is nowhere like it used to be. Tryptophan and GABA seem to help with the sleep issues. I also still have some trouble with anxiety, social anxiety, and feeling irritated, but it is no more than 50% of the time (will be good for a few days and then bad for a few days, seemingly randomly). Also still having flareups of acne on my back (never had this as a teenager).

Doctor and I agreed to lower dose to 128mg Test C a week (split into 2 SubQ doses) and to stop taking Arimidex. I am hoping to improve my mood and mood stability by cutting out the Arimidex due to the Arimidex side effects and possible Estradiol swings. Overall we are happy with these numbers.

Current blood tests for the 160mg Test C with 1mg Adex weekly protocol below:

CHEMICAL NAME CHEMICAL LEVEL LAB REFERENCE RANGE DATE & TIME COLLECTED
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 917 ng/dL H 264 - 916 ng/dL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
FREE TESTOSTERONE 26.6 pg/mL H 9.3 – 26.5 pg/mL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
ESTRADIOL 38.4 pg/mL 7.6 – 42.6 pg/mL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
WBC 8.6 x10E3/uL 3.4 - 10.8 x10E3/uL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
RBC 5.32 x10E6/uL 4.14 - 5.80 x10E6/uL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
HEMOGLOBIN 15.2 g/dL 13.0 - 17.7 g/dL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
HEMATOCRIT 45.3 % 37.5 - 51 % 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
MCV 85 fL 79 – 97 fL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
MCH 28.6 pg 26.6 – 33.0 pg 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
MCHC 33.6 g/dL 31.5 – 35.7 g/dL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
RDW 14.0 % 12.3 – 15.4 % 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
PLATELET COUNT 193 x10E3/uL 150 - 379 x10E3/uL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
NEUTROPHILS 79 % ? 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
LYMPHS 15 % ? 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
MONOCYTES 5 % ? 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
EOS 1 % ? 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
BASOS 0 % ? 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
NEUTROPHILS (ABSOLUTE) 6.7 x10E3/uL 1.4 – 7.0 x10E3/uL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
LYMPHS (ABSOLUTE) 1.3 x10E3/uL 0.7 – 3.1 x10E3/uL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
MONOCYTES (ABSOLUTE) 0.4 x10E3/uL 0.1 – 0.9 x10E3/uL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
EOS (ABSOLUTE) 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0 – 0.4 x10E3/uL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
BASO (ABSOLUTE) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 – 0.2 x10E3/uL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
IMMATURE GRANULOCYTES 0 % ? 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
IMMATURE GRANULOCYTES (ABSOLUTE) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 – 0.1 x10E3/uL 04/15/2019 9:45 AM
#60

Those are good numbers. I would not
Make such a big drop. I would drop by 10mg or 15mgs at a time. Have you ever tried to run these numbers with an ai to see how the estrogen effects you?

#61

How are you feeling besides all these sides?

#62

@enackers

While on 120mg a week for 6 weeks (60mg twice a week) and with NO AI (Bloodwork From October 2018) my levels were:

|TOTAL TESTOSTERONE |663 ng/dL |300 - 1,080 ng/dL |10/15/2018 7:54 AM|
|FREE TESTOSTERONE |163 pg/mL |47 - 244 pg/mL |10/15/2018 7:54 AM|
|ESTRADIOL (ULTRASENSITIVE/PED) |34 pg/mL |< OR = 29 pg/mL |10/15/2018 7:54 AM|

Extrapolating from the various protocol changes and bloodwork, 128mg a week (64mg twice a week) should have me (at a minimum) in the low 700’s at my lowest point. And I avoid the side effects and estrogen swings of being on an AI.

Overall I felt good on that protocol, but my mood seemed to swing every few days from feeling decent to irritable and tired and back again. Lowering dose and removing the AI cuts another variable out of the equation.

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