27 y/o. Blood Tests, ED/Moodiness/Weakness

Sure I can provide lifting numbers. Honestly I had to stop all of my big three lifts once I hurt my shoulder–i did all sorts of rehab and kinda arrived at fact that I can do big compound lifts and hurt or isolated work and feel okay.

Anyhow best ever bench =295 lbs , squat was in low 400 lbs, and I didnt ever do seriously heavy dead lifts but would do reps with 250. And that was all at around 160 lbs body weight. I could also do 145 push ups in a row and 28 pullups and did about 250 push ups a day.

Compared to now I’d struggle to press my bodyweight 170, and I doubt if I could squat over 200. I generally do pullups and dips with the dip assist machine taking off 50 lbs of my bodyweight or so (used to do them with a 45 around my waist!) , I use the 30 lb dumbbells for most bicep work, so 130 lbs on flat row or lat pull and do 70 lb upright rows with free weights. I’m definitely still stronger than my average colleague, but my numbers dont reflect what’s at least close to a bodybuilder diet and 3 good training sessions a week. Some walls are there because of my shoulder like dips or bench press, but theres also a large aspect of less energy, and I never get the rush or the edge that would let me lift more as before. I now can also do maybe 50 push ups now vs 145 in a row before.


Personally, I think its pretty obvious you need TRT. 10 years is a very long time to go on as you did. At 18, you should have been peaking Test.

You’re number are “normal” for a lot of the tests but the main thing is how you feel. And you feel like SHIT! I’m surprised you can focus well enough to have finished your masters much less your dissertation.

As a student, I’m assuming money is an issue but if you can figure it out, I would get treatment ASAP. The change will blow your mind. I’ve heard that Defy Med is great. Good luck.

Doesn’t the estradiol seem rather low to any of you more experienced guys??

“Clomid , one pill every 2 days-- I think it was a 25 mg pill? I came back a month later and he said the tests still showed “low-normal” testosterone so he offered me hcg injectiions.”

Do you know what the response to your LH was on clomid?
You tried HCG and clomid and still no good increase in T. Have you ever had an ultrasound of your testicles? I suggest that. If LH went up nicely during clomid and still no good increase in T you may be primary hypogonadism, that’s why you should check testicles. And with HCG if testicles working good you should have seen a good increase in T.

You may need trt any way but check it.

I saw you refused Viagra. It’s ok to take while you are figuring this stuff out. When you can successful bang one out with your girl, that will make you feel good. I had Ed and it is quite depressing. When you can’t even jerk off I went :crazy_face:

Edit I notice your cholesterol is on the low end. Cholesterol is needed to make hormones. Just FYI.

Yes. It’s actually good that it’s low with his low t. Less of a chance needing e2 control if doing trt.
My Dr was smart enough to do a bone density scan when I had both low.

He’s pretty lean (30" waist, 170 lbs at 5’7") that may be keeping his E2 lower.

Thanks so much for everyone’s help so far–I’m very grateful.

Answering a few things: Unfortunately I don’t have the LH numbers or even exact test numbers for the clomid and hcg therapy I did when I was 20 with my dr. I remember the 250 ng/dl reading that got me that appointment and the subsequently higher test that got me dismissed–but after that the doctor just used the phrase “low-normal range” and said that the tests revealed that both of these therapies didn’t move that range much. So I’m not sure how knowledgeable he was or if he was even looking at these values to be honest.

From these last two tests and onwards I will of course be in charge of keeping track of my own bloodwork, and filling in holes with a place like privatemdlabs. It’s amazing the often appallingly low or otherwise “secretive” level of care many of us get with our pcps. Especially as a younger guy when I ask for my “tests” from doctors they often give me the run around or ask me why I care.

As far as ultrasound on the testicles, I actually have had three! I had hydroceles three different times that got kind of bad and each time they wanted to make sure it was nothing more serious, I had three performed at different hospitals–including the last at my university hospital which has cutting edge tech etc. And all those tests came back fine.

As for viagra, I probably should consider it, I have just been afraid, I’m honestly just a worrier when it comes to medicine as I have heard people having headaches/dizziness etc and I’m sometimes prone to vertigo. But I will think more about it!

Last, interesting about cholesterol/low E2 (or balanced E2 with lower T). Via the waist size comment, yes I am not “ripped” in any sense, but you can definitely see abdominal muscle outlines in good lighting (since I’m pretty pale lol)–I’ve definitely had a lower bodyfat, but feel I’m in a pretty healthy range as far as that’s concerned.

Not sure what to say about the cholesterol being too low, that’s an interesting thought though! I should maybe eat more whole eggs in the morning? That’s supposed to be good for test production anyhow right?

Finally, yes I have a consult with Defy medical this week over these labs and symptoms and I am excited to hear what they say and hopefully get some better help as I have been frustrated for a long time. I’m hoping that I don’t have to do clomid again since it made me feel like crap, but I know they are experts so I will default to their opinion. I’m thinking because of my age they will be conservative…

Yeah, I can see that too … as long as I am looking at someone else and not me!

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Lol , hey that works too!

I think you need to be assertive and tell them you want optimal levels and that you want to do self injections. Steer away from AI and look at SERMS instead.

Read this thread:

Wow! Interesting, reading all that this guy has written has really helped! So most folks on here are against using an AI on TRT unless E2 gets super out of wack (what’s out of wack high, above 50?)? And since I’m kind of low at 14 now do you think I’d have to worry less as it is about suppressing estrogen on TRT doses (say 120 mg/week)?

So do most folks on here run hcg while on TRT ?

It’s mixed in my opinion. I never have but I’m 53 and not worried about kids anymore and my nuts arent doing too badly

Again mixed views. PhysioLojik is an Endo and he stresses on relying on how you feel.

Huh, okay interesting. Most of the defy medical protocol utilize Test C, HcG and an AI, but I have heard of them telling folks to hold off at first to see if it was needed --at least I have read that from people claiming to be patients!

But I’m sure I’ll have to wait and be made to try clomid or hcg again anyhow–I’m just hoping not for clomid because it was awful!

Jut tell them no. You are paying them, not the other way around. Just tell them you’ve had clomid prescribed before and had terrible reactions. From what I’ve heard, they are pretty cool to work with.

There are guys who just don’t tolerate anastrozole well, when I take it even if E2 is still elevated, the medication has side effects of its own. I experience bone and joint pain as if E2 is low, even when E2 is confirmed high.

The joint pain and bone pain starts subsiding after the half life is reached, then I gradually start feeling better as it clears my system. I inject 10mg everyday in an attempt to lower estrogen which seems to come down everytime I inject smaller doses more frequently (50mg x2week->20mg EOD->10mg ED).

I heard guys tell me they feel better after stopping the AI and simply lowering the T dosage to get E2 in a comfortable range rather than shooting for massive TRT dosages and having to compensate with AI’s. Some men will just require AI’s no matter what because they naturally convert a lot of testosterone to estrogen.

My dr told me not to worry about elevated bilirubin btw because the lab ran direct bilirubin which he said was fine…does that seem right to those more experienced in interpreting labs?

Yes, given other LFTs and family history.

Before you commit to TRT you can try this “stack” - I put together for myself when I had similar issues also during grad school I can relate to a lot of what you posted. I did this for 6 weeks:

  • Enclomiphene (none of clomids nasty sides but all the benefits) 12.5mg ED I raised to 25mg ED after couple weeks - to raise endogenous T levels (single isomer clomiphene citrate) search studies on pubmed and you can order online research chemical sites

  • Up your fats n cholesterol

  • DIM to cleanse the liver of e2 100mg ED with food

  • Ashwagandha KSM-66 to lower cortisol - 300mg ED at bed

  • Foods that have arginine and L-citrulline ie. beets (vasodilator) - avoid vasoconstrictors like caffeine to promote blood flow

  • Good multivitamin I like progressive Active Men

  • Zinc supplement

Thanks everyone for your advice and thoughts!

As a quick update I had a doctors appointment and in his mind the free T of around 10 taken in the am was far more concerning than the total T. I had another measurement of a free T of around 8 ng/dl and my doctor says that optimally this would be in the mid 20s-low 30s even.

My doctor has given me a protocol of 70mg Test cyp, 500IU hcg, and .125mg adex 2x a week for 140mg total test a week. He said this should roughly triple my current testosterone levels. I made another post here about whether or not I should start on the AI, but I thought I’d just update this thread as to my doctors thoughts!

Going back and forth with different opinions I think I may just follow this protocol to a T for 2 months and see how I feel before tweaking it. He also is having me do 4g of fish oil, 5000 iu vit d and 50 mg dhea daily.