T Nation

26yr Old, Test 325-365, Very Low Libido, ED


#1

Hi

Let me tell you the extremely messed up situation I am in, you guys seem much more knowledgeable than my docs , so hopefully somebody can help. Please forgive me for the lengthy post. Long story short, I am 25, going on 26 in 3 months. I also happen to still be a virgin, OUCH.. right? but hold up.. somehow looking back at my life this all ties together and seems to make sense now with my recent diagnosis.

to make things as concise as possible, leaving out all irrelevant to the question, and explanatory life details,

I only had one girlfriend in high school, and I failed to sleep with her and we broke up because I did not feel comfortable because I "did not find her attractive enough" despite her being quite decent looking by any normal standards. Since then, many decent looking by normal standards girls pursued me through high school and college years, and I would turn them down because I felt like "they were not attractive enough for me" it just seemed like they wouldnt really "turn me on".. the only girls that would turn me on are like the 10-15% where they had some feature that was extremely attractive, and that was too low of a percentage for me to ever get with any of them. This makes me think I actually may have had libido problems and T problems all along and never knew it. I didnt realize something was wrong, and just laughed it off thinking "i was way too picky" and it was killing my chances

2013 I started getting my game straight, and found the first woman I tried to have sex with.. despite finding her very attractive, once we got in bed all the sudden I felt like I had no interest at all and cannot even get an erection. after that I have tried with about six or seven other women and gotten the same exact results.

My first T test I got was in early 2015, It came back at 365, at the time I had some rather severe insomnia, and was drinking pretty heavily for the past year. After getting on trazadone for sleep, and getting about 6 hours a night average since then, and cutting back and eventually quitting drinking entirely, i thought I would improve, but I got a new test 2 months ago and it came back at 325! Also i felt like my libido got worse, I failed with yet another woman, and women actually started to look strange to me! it was a real head trip! not even attractive anymore really, but strange!

Some more background/ recent blood tests.

I had a severe head trauma when I was born
my blood tests indicated that I have a condition called hypocholesterol - my non fasting total cholesterol came back at 125
I was slightly low on vitamin D

I I did not have any other test done as of yet, I just went to see a urologist who was terrible and did not listen to me although he did give me an order for a blood test for LH and LFSH and Estrogen. He also just threw a prescription of testosterone gel in my face in five minutes and told me to take it or leave it. I accepted the prescription but I really want to be careful before making a life-changing decision like this, plus at 25 thats a long time to be on trt the rest of my life, and I still want to have children.

one of the things I have been doing since the last month is desperately trying to raise my cholesterol. I started out with a little bit of butter and milk everyday and lately I have really been upping it, as of the last week and a half I have been at about half a stick of butter and two eggs and two glasses of milk a day, and now I'm trying to go even higher.

Semingly no improvement in sleep, libido seems same as terrible when watching porn, with about 65% erection strength and potency, but seems just a bit easier now to get an erection, also seems like muscles are just a little bit rounder and fuller, but only a little, and it seems I have at least lost the effect of women looking "strange" and they look at least attractive again. Still afraid to have sex though and fail again. I never got my levels tested yet after starting this since its only been about a month i got this idea.

Im not sure if I am improvign or not.

Could I have your guys thoughts on my situation? I feel like my GP is fantastic but not too knowledgeable on the issue, and my urologist is an asshole who would not listen to me or conduct any thorough tests on me at all, he straight told me my cholesterol had nothing to do with it.

Sorry for the long post.

Thank you so much!


#2

Please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys, good general basics – >>>provide more info about you<<<
  • forum post ‘hormones and health’

Your low cholesterol is undermining your hormone production.

Please get these labs and post labs WITH ranges in list format:
TT
FT
E2
prolactin
IGF-1
LH/FSH
Vit-D25
DHEA-S
pregnenolone
progesterone
AM cortisol
CBC
AST/ALT

Check and post oral body temperatures:

  • when you first wake up, should be 97.7-97.8, higher OK, 97.3 is a problem
  • also see if you have 98.6 mid-afternoon

Do you always used iodized salt?

Cholesterol is made in the liver. Effects of dietary intake of cholesterol are not recognized as minor, but given you low level, might help.

ping me in the KSman is here thread when you have more info here.


#3

It might be worth your time to check out the following website and see if your situation may have something to do with porn use:

www.yourbrainonporn.com


#4

Hi

unfortunately my doctors havent been the most knowledgeable and cooperative, so I havent been able to get ALL the tests done that I probably should, like prolactin, etc…

However, I have gotten the major ones done…

Total Test January : 367

Total Test August: 325

September Labs:

LH: 3.8

FSH: 1.2

Total Estrogen: 206

Sounds to me from what Ive read like my LH and FSH are way in the low range which would indicate that Im secondary…

Also I read the top range for males for estrogen is 115? Which would explain my half-an-a-cup man titties…

Any thoughts on these levels, what they might mean, possible treatment? further investigation? BTW, I have had symptoms of low T my entire life, like muscle weakness, low libido, etc… but I think its gotten worse as ive gotten older… I used to get morning wood most of the time back in high school…

I think you guys know more about this than my doctors do…

My urologist just wanted to put me on TRT, but I dont want to do it for fertility and other reasons, with numbers like these it looks like I may be able to treat my secondary reasons first…

Thoughts?

Thanks ! :slight_smile:


#5

Hi

unfortunately my doctors havent been the most knowledgeable and cooperative, so I havent been able to get ALL the tests done that I probably should, like prolactin, etc…

However, I have gotten the major ones done…

Total Test January : 367

Total Test August: 325

September Labs:

LH: 3.8

FSH: 1.2

Total Estrogen: 206

Sounds to me from what Ive read like my LH and FSH are way in the low range which would indicate that Im secondary…

Also I read the top range for males for estrogen is 115? Which would explain my half-an-a-cup man titties…

Any thoughts on these levels, what they might mean, possible treatment? further investigation? BTW, I have had symptoms of low T my entire life, like muscle weakness, low libido, etc… but I think its gotten worse as ive gotten older… I used to get morning wood most of the time back in high school…

I think you guys know more about this than my doctors do…

My urologist just wanted to put me on TRT, but I dont want to do it for fertility and other reasons, with numbers like these it looks like I may be able to treat my secondary reasons first…

Thoughts?

Thanks ! :slight_smile:


#6

Hi

unfortunately my doctors havent been the most knowledgeable and cooperative, so I havent been able to get ALL the tests done that I probably should, like prolactin, etc…

However, I have gotten the major ones done…

Total Test January : 367

Total Test August: 325

September Labs:

LH: 3.8

FSH: 1.2

Total Estrogen: 206

Sounds to me from what Ive read like my LH and FSH are way in the low range which would indicate that Im secondary…

Also I read the top range for males for estrogen is 115? Which would explain my half-an-a-cup man titties…

Any thoughts on these levels, what they might mean, possible treatment? further investigation? BTW, I have had symptoms of low T my entire life, like muscle weakness, low libido, etc… but I think its gotten worse as ive gotten older… I used to get morning wood most of the time back in high school…

I think you guys know more about this than my doctors do…

My urologist just wanted to put me on TRT, but I dont want to do it for fertility and other reasons, with numbers like these it looks like I may be able to treat my secondary reasons first…

Thoughts?

Thanks ! :slight_smile:


#7

Did you read these stickies?
advice for new guys
protocol for injections
finding a TRT doc

You can protect your fertility with hCG or Nolvadex.

There is an article linked in the advice for new guys sticky that addresses HPTA restart.


#8

I noticed in your restart post that you say to stay away from clomid and do Novla instead, here are my questions… From everything ive read, clomid is the most highly recommended thing which can “kickstart” the pituitary/hypothalmus to start making chemicals correctly. Is Novla really as effective as Clomid in this regard?

ALSO, Here is my problem with Novla… Although Novla seems to reduce estrogens, it acts as a very powerful estrogen on the liver… and estrogen in the liver lowers cholesterol levels, and my cholesterol levels are already super low at 125 which im sure is compromising my Test levels, as well as this my total estrogens is already almost double the top limit, which im sure is making the problem worse and not giving my body enough of what it needs to make test in the first place… so it seems taking Novla would backfire on me by lowering my cholesterol levels even further…

I read that a true AI like Arimidex actually lowers estrogen in the liver, and raises cholesterol levels… as well as increasing LH and FSH, however, i dont think it acts as a SERM to kickstart the pituitary/hypothalmus… and taking two estrogen inhibitors at the same time, Novla and Arimidex seems like it would be over the top… So im considering a clomid/arimidex combo… what do you think?

Also unfortunately the HCG thing is like impossible for me, first off i would have to find a doctor who would do it, second it would be physically impossible for me with my schedule to drive to see a doctor twice a week to put shots in my ass, and i dont have anyone else who could do it for me… :confused: also apparently HCG is expensive out the ass … like thousand dollars for 6 weeks or something…

What do you think of the Clomid/Adex combo for my situation with the high estrogens and low cholesterol?


#9

Nolva has known toxicities to the liver and the eyes, and its long term use in men hasn’t been well studied. Here is a good page listing the toxicities of Nolva (Tamoxifen) on various organ systems (compared with Toremifene, which is an even more toxic SERM).

http://www.rxlist.com/fareston-drug/side-effects-interactions.htm

For example, a high percentage of patients on Nolva develop cataracts (among other ocular side effects) and elevated liver enzymes. Nolva is also known to form crystal deposits in the retina. Here is one source, but there are various:

 http://www.retinalphysician.com/articleviewer.aspx?articleid=101328 

A couple of months of low dose Nolva may not be a problem, but long term use would scare me.

Aromatase inhibitors may ALSO be toxic to the eye, which is why combining Nolva and Arimidex is a particularly bad idea: See

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3205820/

OTOH, it is quite possible that Clomid may have some of the same side effects in the long term; it just hasn’t been studied to the extent that Nolva has for long term use.


#10

Clomid was the first SERM and got all of the research papers. When Nolvadex came along, it did not make any sense to repeat the work that showed what a happens when a SERM reduces estrogen actions on the hypothalamus.

Too much reading and uninformed guess work going on.

Anastrozole/Arimidex does not increase or adversely affect cholesterol profiles. If you take E2 to very low levels, cholesterol profiles messed up. The problem is not the drug, but doses that are stupid for males. You cannot extrapolate 1mg/day dosing in females to a male TRT context where E2 levels are modulated, not zero’d out.

You also have to realize that the women in the clinical data were also exposed to chemotherapy and/or radiation. The incidence of adverse results reflects those effects too.

“Intraretinal crystalline deposits, corneal opacities, macular edema, and focal fundus pigmentary changes, along with decreased visual acuity (VA), have been linked with tamoxifen doses greater than 60 mg/m2 per day.2 The macular toxicity of tamoxifen may also predispose to macular hole formation.3”

So is anyone talking about TRT males taking those high doses?

We do expect to find regenerative states in the eyes of older women and should not be surprised that these show up with menopausal cancer patients. Again, they are subject also to other cancer treatments and in that age group are taking other medications.


#11

Check and post oral body temperatures:

  • when you first wake up, should be 97.7-97.8, higher OK, 97.3 is a problem
  • also see if you have 98.6 mid-afternoon

Do you always used iodized salt?

Thyroid function is very important and the above is not trivial.

Please see other things that might have been overlooked in my first post.