T Nation

25mg Test, 25iu Ipamorelin, 1mg Anastrozol Per Week

T Replacement
#1

Hello. I have lurked for two years. I am dialed in now. Thanks for all your help.

A friend is 74, has a very positive outlook, joyously works 6.5 days a week (personal counselor), good energy, eats very clean, and does aerobics regularly, no weights. Says erectile function is 80% of when he was a youth.

He is not obese, but his body fat % is a bit high and he wants to lose 10-15 lbs. He plans on doing this by doing the HCG Diet Plan (500 calories a day and homeopathic, not actual, HCG drops), as he has in the past.

His last hormone tests were many months ago. He does not have the reports. He says Total T was over 700, free T was strong, E was “very high”. His advisors are concerned about the estrogen level.

He has a naturopath, a nutritionist and another health advisor. They don’t want him to start the HCG (homeopathic drops) Diet Plan without first bringing down his E number, as they believe the homeopathic HCG drops will increase his estrogen and that would be dangerous.

The naturopath did not order blood work, put him on:

25 units of Ipamorelin, injected nightly;

25 mg Test C, IM once a week;

1 mg Anastrozol once a week.

The prescriber intends for him to be on this program for 12 weeks, then stop, as his prescriber believes the estrogen should have been brought down by then, and he can start the (homeopathic, not actual HCG injections) HCG Diet Plan without worry that it will boost his E.

I have given him my opinion. He has three people telling him something else. He is a very, very good person. Could you share your opinion, and I will share it with him? Thanks.

#2

Not only no, but hell no. No way, no how. That is a terrible plan. HCG diet, NO. 25mg test/week, NO. AI on that protocol, NO!

Eat slightly less calories than you burn over 5 or 6 months. Simple as shit. He doesn’t need to do anything else.

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#3

This doctor is an incompetent person.

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#4

He sounds healthy. Is this homeopathic HCG a joke? Do naturopaths prescribe drugs with licenses?

#5

It’s quite common, actually. It’s an extreme fad diet that crashes calories and the HCG supposedly eliminates hunger. You’ll see it advertised by a lot of hormone clinics, and it’s a money maker.

Yes, that is how a lot of us legally get testosterone, HCG, anavar, HGH, etc.

That said, a good amount of these naturopathic don’t have the training or experience to really know what they’re doing, and are in it for the money. Some of it is malpractice. For example, prescribing testosterone to someone with normal healthy levels of it and no symptoms. That can get them in big trouble.

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#6

Right. I’m surprised, and it looks like an irresponsible regimen.

Does the homeopathic HCG come with other ingredients? I read one online showing other supplements that do work, except I’m curious if the dose is a drop or the several grams required for results.

#7

It’s typically injected, usually dosed at 150-200iu/day for this purpose. I can tell you for sure it does not eliminate hunger in any way at that dose.

#8

This is all nonsense. I know some of the most unhealthy people in the world who swallow hgh and other supplements all day, and I know people with diets above 50% sugar and alcohol who look healthy.

Your social situation motivates this, mostly.

#9

We found a winner for the “Who can fuck up a healthy person the worst?” contest that we run annually here at T-Nation. This is without question the worst thing I’ve ever seen suggested on here, and my friend that is saying something. Perhaps this naturopath should have spent more time learning about biology and physiology and less time pretending to be a doctor? Because even us meathead idiots know that this plan is a 100% guaranteed disaster for your friend. If your friend hasn’t started then make him read the responses here so that he doesn’t start. If he already has…

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#10

Seems like weight is the only issue here. Time for your friend to try lifting some weights instead and be done with it. His Estrogen has nothing to do with anything except that its the reason why he has a working dick, good joints and heart health. So lets crash it and ruin his good run. Sheesh… stay off the juice is what I would say to him, and buy some adjustable weights. Simple workouts should help eliminate the stubborn fat. 25mg/wk of T coupled with HCG is a joke and great way to fuck someone up.

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#11

Tell your friend to stop and run far far away from this “doctor”

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#12

Thanks for your caring advice. Here is addition info on the regime prescribed to him:

The Ipamorelin, 25 units every night;

Anastrozol, 1 mg once a week.

The above is in addition to the 25 mg Testosterone C, IM once a week.

Any comments on the above? I will forward them to him. Any reasoning or facts behind the comments would be appreciated, if you have the time. My friend is the most decent, helpful person I know.

#13

are you 100% sure the doctor is prescribing 25mg test C once per week? Not 25mg every day or 250mg once per week?

The issue with low dose testosterone is that any amount of exogenous testosterone will completely shut down your natural production, and if you are not replacing ALL of the testosterone you naturally produce you will end up hypogonadal which will come with some seriously bad side effects and significant long term health issues.

1mg Arimidex per week is going to also bottom out his estrogen. Causing even more serious side effects and more major long term health issues.

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#14

I do not see why you would bother with this kind of intervention if you did not just do it comprehensively.

Growth and test do help people lose weight, in the right approach. Why do it weird ways like this instead of just the standard way?

What do you think you gain from homeopathic hcg vs real hcg, tiny doses of test vs high TRT, no bloodwork to monitor? I do not know for sure, except I suspect one small dose like 25mg every week will suppress his production so he ends up with less overall testosterone than normal.

#15

Thanks so much, and thanks to all

#16

On 500mg of test a week I take 0mg of anastrozole. Your friend has been handed joint damage in a bottle for no reason other than the ignorance of the person prescribing it.

His TT is more than double what mine was when starting trt. He’s 74 and has better TT than most guys in their early 30’s. Literally the last thing you’d prescribe this man is testosterone. It’s malpractice. Not borderline malpractice, full-fledged, get-the-lawyers-ready malpractice.

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#18

Thanks, System Lord. You are an old hand at this, so I appreciate your comment. Would you care to supply the facts/reasoning behind it so my friend will better understand? Thanks in advance.

#19

Here’s what you tell your friend, in no particular order:

Testosterone levels are determined by either endogenous or exogenous sources. If you’re making Xmg per week naturally and your TT is 700 then you’re in good shape. The moment you take exogenous testosterone your natural baseline goes away. You’re not adding to the existing 700, you’re vacating it and replacing it. If the replacement dose is below what you were making before then you’ve shut down your natural hormone system in order to be worse than you were when you started. At 25mg/w your friend is going to have the testosterone levels of a man in his 70’s rather than having the utterly fantastic numbers he has naturally. He’s actively going backwards for no possible upside.

As for the anastrozole…

That is a drug that’s used as needed during trt. Most people will not need it. I would argue that if you need it during trt then it’s because your dose is too high. But that’s for another day. Anastrozole is a very strong drug. If I used that much a week my e2 would be unmeasurable because it would go below the threshold sensitivities of the blood test. For 25mg/w it is unconscionable for someone to prescribe that drug and that dose. The side effects of crashed e2 are all bad and you don’t want any of them. Joint pain, lethargy, depression, sleep disturbances, you get the idea. At that dose your friend is guaranteed to get those side effects. Not possible, guaranteed. Joints deprived of proper lubrication have a tendency to cause injury at a much higher frequency. Again, your friend is willingly asking to be injured, depressed, and have his testosterone levels dropped. If he wanted the fasted road to misery then this nitwit naturopath gave it to him. But it would have been faster and cheaper to just fly to Vegas and lose everything he had at the craps table. More fun too.

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#20

This doctor wants to drop your friends testosterone as low as possible and prescribe a large dose AI in an attempt to lower his estrogen making him severely hypogonadal in the process not to mention crashing his estrogen into oblivion which should deprive him of the necessary estrogen for bone, brain and joint health.

No competently trained doctor would ever prescribe an AI in your friends situation let alone prescribe TRT with your friends current better than average testosterone levels for a guy at any age.

A lot of guys can’t even handle .5mg AI, let alone 1mg. I tried a 0.050 dose AI, knees and hips hurt 5 days later and took me weeks to recover. Anastrozole is powerful stuff!

Your friends HPTA is working like a champion according to what you say, a 74 year old with a 700 Total T, strong Free T levels, damn!

Either this doctor doesn’t care about his patients, or just doesn’t know any better and is using your friend as a guinea pig.

Ok, diet and excersise, not hormone deprivation therapy. You can double down using Cialis which has been documented to change testosterone, estrogen ratios in a 12 month period. These things mentioned above is more than likely going to improve overall health, loose the weight and get those erections as close to 100% as possible.

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#21

In conclusion to @iron_yuppie comment I will say this:

Contemplating a protocol of 25mg Test-c/week + 1mg arimidex/week is essentially saying “oh, I wonder what would happen if I completely removed two of the most essential hormones for sexual health, mental health, and physical well-being completely from my body in order to lose 10 lbs of pure rock hard muscle while retaining all of my body fat”

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