T Nation

25 Y/O - Right Levels?

Hi Everyone!
I’ve read all the stickies so I’ll try to include everything that could be pertinent in an objective way

HEALTH-CRASH
8 months ago - It all started with sexual dysfunction (including loss of sensitivity), extreme fatigue, tingling sensation in my hands and feet, blood pressure problems, constipation, extreme brain-fog. I’m been on a research frenzy to determining if this is a androgen deficiency or problems related to thyroid, adrenals, pituitary, prostate, liver etc. Right now, all I have is my labs and experimentation with different treatments. Doctors have been of little use. So bring on the stats, symptoms and bloodwork:

STATS
AGE: 25
HEIGHT: 1m78cm
WAIST: Trim
WEIGHT: 72kg
HAIR: A lot of body hair, enough facial hair to grow a beard
FAT: never had any, now all around waist and thighs
TESTES ACHE: recently since trying GH, Tongkat Ali, etc.
MORNING WOOD: Haven�¢??t had these since I can remember
DIET: Healthy mix of protein carbs and fat - love the sweet stuff but keep it under control.

SYMPTOMS
-Brain Fog
-Social Withdrawal (really don�¢??t feel like going out tonight)
-Really Excessive Sweating (especially after exercise)
-Exercise intolerance (feeling too tired after exercise, blood pressure drop?)
-No Libido, Hard to maintain EQ
-Gyno
-Serious muscle mass loss
-Adipose fat
-Dark bags under eyes
-Neck temporarily increase in thickness then gone (goiter?)
-Sexual Dysfunction immediately after certain drugs (loss of sensation, maybe blood flow)
-Lack of restorative sleep

LABS
JANUARY 2014
Leucocytes 5,1 giga/l (4 -10)
H�?�©maties 5,71 tera/l (4,5 - 6,5)
Hemoglobine 15,5 g/dl (13 - 17)
Hematocrite 45,3 % (40 - 54)
VGM 96,2 um3 (80 - 100)
TGMH 32,9 pg (27 - 32)
CGMH 34,2 g/dl (30 - 35)
Cholesterol 5,88 mmol/l (<5,20)
Triglycerides 1,84 mmol/l (<2,26)
Cholesterol HDL 1,16 mmol/l (>1,45)
Creatinine 92 �?�¼mol/l (59-104)
Iron 21,60 �?�¼mol/l (5,83 - 34,50)
Transferrine 2,63 g/l (2 - 3,6)
C-Reactie Protein <3,0 mg/l (<5,0)
Ferritin 76 ng/ml (30 - 400)
Free T4 15,46 ng/dl (0,94-1,72)
TSH 2,49 �?�¼UI/ml (0.27-4.20)
LH 6,0 mUI/ml (1,7 - 8,6)
Prolactin 12 ng/ml (4 -15)
Cortisol 87 ng/ml (62 - 194)*
Calcium 96.4 mg/l (86 - 100)
Phosphore 49,29 mg/l (25 - 44)
Magnesium 21,14 mg/l (16 - 24)
Vitamin D (D2+D3) 27 ng/ml LOW
Testosterone 634 nmol/l (350 -1100)*
*Doctor thought cortisol was kind of low for AM - DHEA 25mg
*Doctor thought test was too low for my age - DHEA 25mg
=improved my EQ but after a while It started stealing away the already little supply of motivation, energy, I had (T -> E2?)

MAY 2014
FSH 8 IU/L (1.4 - 18 )
LH 6.4 IU/L (1-5 - 9.3 )
E2 36.8 pg/ml (11 - 41)
T 577.5 ng /dl (350 -1100)
Free T 489 ng/dl (259-1000)
GH <0.05 L ug/l (0.5 - 4.7 )*
Cortisol 8am blood 930.4 nmol/l (171.00 - 536.00 )*
ACTH 45.7 ng/L (7.2 - 63.3)
IGF-1 267 ng/ml (116-358)
*a cortisol suppression test was done the same week= resulted negative for cushiness syndrome.
*According to doctor GH was abnormally low. We decided to try a month of GH therapy since it addresses same symptoms (helped energy and mental - libido worsened- maybe affected next labs)

JULY 2014
TSH 1.461 mU/L (0.550-4.780)
T3 1.07 nmol/l (0.9 - 2.79)
T4 78 nmol/l (58 - 151)
FT4 12.93 pmol/l (9 - 20)
FT3 5.14 pmol/l (2.30 - 6.40)
FSH 6.77 IU/L (1.40 -18.10)
LH 4.41 IU/L (1.50-9.30)
Estradiol 28.4 pg/ml (11.4-41.1)
Testosterone 370 pg/ml (230 - 806)*
Na,Sodium 141 nmol/l (133 - 146)
K, Potassium 4.1 mmol/l (3.5 - 5.1)
CL, chloride 104 nmol/l (98 -107)
CO2, carbon dioxide 27 nmol/L (nmol/l)
bUN/Urea Nitrogen 6.8 nmol/l (2.1 - 7.1)
Cr, Creatinine 91 umol/L (55 - 155)
Glucose, Fasting 5.5 nmol/L (3.9 - 5.6)
Ca, Calcium 2.43 nmol/L (2.20 - 2.50)
*after this low test result doctor prescribed Andriol (oral test) 40mg and Chinese herbal concoction.

TREATMENT TRIALS
DHEA (often used for "adrenal fatigue�¢??) - helped with some of my sexual side-effects in the beginning. but killed little motivation and ambition I had.

SAINT JOHNS WORT - had to discontinue because immediately worsens sexual dysfunction. (known supplement to help treat hypo HPA)

EURYCOMA LONGIFOLIA -Tried one week after my growth hormone cycle. brought some energy but immediately worsened sexual dysfunction (known supplement test booster)

GROWTH HORMONE - Tried for a month and although gave me much more energy drove my libido (and apparently a lot of my lab values) down.

ANDRIOL - Took for a week and stopped. Did not seem to improve libido aspect and brought on increased lethargy, apathy, etc (High Aromatization?)

RACETAMS - I only used them for one month before my health crash and loved them. now an hour after I take them I receive a numbing sexual dysfunction (too wired - excitocicity?).

NEXT STEPS
LIVER&SCROTUM ULTRASOUND- Liver to rule out any issues that might be causing the high e2. scrotum to rule out any testicular atrophy (TRT required?)

TAURINE SUPPLEMENTATION - Combination of Phenibut and Racetam�¢??s (although taken separately)could have caused an neurotransmitter imbalance that leads to excitoxicity.

TEMPERATURE TEST - taking temperature upon wake-up to gauge thyroid function.

TEST FOR ZINC DEFECIECNY - low Zinc might explain aromatization from T to E3. Low Zinc also could cause increase prolactin since it�¢??s absence would increase re-uptake of dopamine which has an inverse correlation with prolactin.

ANY SUGGESTIONS :slight_smile: ?


OTHER INFO:
Growing up, I had a couple of girlfriends. I never did seem to have the sex-drive I saw in others. Some might say I was a late bloomer and the few relationships I ended up in were most often a result of serendipity rather than my own pursuit. Always more interested in hanging out with my friends. That said, I took pride in my bedroom performance. For this purpose I always used libido enhancing sups and pde5 inhibitors.

SPORTS
Always super sporty. Soccer in my early adolescence and after that I started hitting the gym. These last 2 or 3 years I started increasing the intensity, hour-long jogs and HIIT on my TRX 3 to 4 times a week. fit as a fiddle almost no body fat % and good figure.

MEDICATION/DRUGS
Full-disclosure: i�¢??m no saint. During me teen years I used Accutane to get rid of Acne, Enjoyed exploring every now a then some recreational substances, but was always precautions. When I hit my early 20�¢??s I noticed the beginning of hairloss and a genetic test showed that I carried MPB genetic predisposition. I started doing minoxidil (rogaine) but stayed away from propecia and fina after heeding warnings from many forums of the sides. During this time I would sometimes use Tramadol for pain.

In the last six months before my health-crash I was experimenting with some nootropics including piracetam, noopept, choline and phenibut (separately). Some of these for an extra edge mentally, some to aid in increasing libido. It is important to note that the reason I turned to these was to address the fact that my libido was almost nonexistent for as long as I can remember and that I was feeling more and more socially withdrawn.

Bump :slight_smile:

Get waking temperature and mid-afternoon, see the thyroid basics sticky. What are your long term iodine sources?

Suggest 0.5mg anastrozole per week in divided doses. See advice for new guys to understand “anastrozole over-responder”.

Any blows to the head or whip-lash prior to start of problems?

See the sticky about things that damage your hormones.

IGF-1 is a better measure of GH status than GH labs because GH is released in pulses and has a very short half live. It take around 6 weeks for GH to create observed benefits.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Get waking temperature and mid-afternoon, see the thyroid basics sticky. What are your long term iodine sources?[/quote]

08:00 : 96.8
12:00 : 97.5
15:00 : 98.06
22:00 : 98.5

Hard to say. for the last 6 years I’ve lived in countries which are away from the ocean - both reportedly have added iodine to their table salt. That said, I always eat at the office food court or restaurants. This last year I started eating a lot of eggs. On days that I ate them I had slight bit more energy and it made my hair thicker. I always thought this was because of the of its choline levels, but perhaps its the iodine in them.

Will start anastrozole. Have already requested from my endo bloodwork on all androgens so I will be able to control before/after.

Asking this question implies you think my problem is related to pituitary problems? I was thinking my pituitary was doing fine as indicated by TSH, FSH and LH levels?

Thanks for having a look KSMAN
Just to play the devils advocate:

Generally speaking it seems to be quite hard to distinguish between Adrenal vs Thyroid issues. what makes you think this is more thyroid related than adrenal?

I’ve heard anecdotes on STTM of Iodine worsening sluggish adrenal symptoms and I’m worried that sluggish adrenals won’t support increase metabolic activities brought by anatrazole and the subsequent increased T (I think this is what happened to my GH trial).

That said would it be worth doing a cortisol saliva test?

Here’s a doctor which has his own patented metabolic temperature diagnostic tool. might interest you.

You are correct, LH/FSH are elevated.

If someone had sluggish cortisol levels and optimal thyroid levels, would one advocate for lowering thyroid levels to treat the cortisol problem?

TSH 1.461 mU/L (0.550-4.780)

  • should be nearer to 1.0
    T3 1.07 nmol/l (0.9 - 2.79)
  • should be nearer to 1.85
    T4 78 nmol/l (58 - 151)
  • should be nearer to 104.5
    FT4 12.93 pmol/l (9 - 20)
  • should be nearer to 14.5
    FT3 5.14 pmol/l (2.30 - 6.40)
  • should be nearer to 4.35

All of the above should have been evident to you after reading the thyroid basics sticky.

fT3 is the odd one, it is a bit high and with that one would not expect lower body temperatures. That could be explained if fT3 is getting blocked by rT3. Please search for references to fT3 in the advice for new guys sticky and the thyroid basics sticky. You will see that fT3 can be elevated by inflammation, infections [especially chronic VS acute], starvation, high stress. Also note references to “Wilson” and “adrenal fatigue”.

We sometimes see problems with low T, hypothyroidism and low cortisol or adrenal fatigue.

Any tick bites 9 months ago? Tested for Lyme disease?

Thank you for your fast feedback.

have not tested for lymes disease - and have not received any remarkable bites in the last months. One thing I did not mention was that that nine months ago before going to the Endo my GP found a Chamydia infection which was treated with a single dose of antibiotics.

Concerning my thyroid - true they are sub-optimal. Which still make hesitant on how to proceed. And I’d value your opinion on this:

Given my temperatures, values etc. would it be reasonable to assume ID and that IR would help?

In the light of what we just discussed would small dose of Anastrozole still be recommended?

Or should I do further tests on RT3 and Salivary Cortisol and if any irregularities only treat adrenal fatigue with supplements?

Hats off for your help

Here is my most recent labwork. This time including the viruses, full thyroid (including rt3), full hormonal, and trace elements. Waiting on results for 24hour salivary cortisol levels.

Have witheld treatment until now, only taking vitc, vitb complex, iron, milk thistle. how to tackle path to health?

TRACE ELEMENTS
Cu 22.91 umol/l (11.80 - 39.30)
Zn 101.41 umol/l (76.50-150.00)
Ca 1.48 umol/l (1.45-2.10)
Mg 1.91 umol/l (1.12 - 2.06)
Fe 10.84 umol/l (7.52 - 11.82)
Lead 36.89 ug/l (0.00-100.00)

METALS
Mercury 0.002 mg/L (0.000-0.015)
Arsenic 0.10 ug/l (0.00-190.00
Cadium 0.400 ug/l (0.00-5.00)

Ferritin 65.50 ug/L (20.00 - 250.00)

EB VIRUS PANEL
all negative.
CMV Igg = negative
CMV IgM = negative

VITAMINS
Folic Acid 7.80 ng/ml (3.00-17.50)
Vitamin B12 294.0 og/ml (191.0-964.0)
Vitamin A 0.45 mg/l (0.30-0.70)
Vitamin E 17.30 mg/l (5.00-20,00)
Vitamin D 29.6 ng/ml (30.00-100.00)

HORMONES
Progesterone 4.22 nmol/l (0.89 - 3.88)
DHEA 434.00 ug/dl (80.00-560.00)
Estradiol 147.7 pmol/l (42.60-151.20) --> 40 ng/dl
Prolactin 12.78 ug/dl (2.10 - 17.70)
Testosterone 24.78 nmol/l (2.10-17.70) -> 718 ng/dl
Free Testosterone 16.86 pg/ml (8.90-42.50)
SBHG 17 nmol/l (14.5 - 48.4)

THYROID
TSH 2.99 mu/l (0.550-4.780)
T3 1.55 nmol/l (0.92 - 2.79)
T4 65.94 nmol/l (58.00-151.00)
FT4 15.29 pmol/l (9.00-20.00)
FT3 5.28 Pmol/l (2.30 - 6.40)
reverse T3 66.63 ng/dl (55-150)

Progesterone is high. Will be interesting to have that context when cortisol labs come in.

Suggest 5000iu Vit-D3

E2 still high. Taking anastrozole?

Thyroid still odd. What are your temperatures lately? Have you started taking any iodine?

Now we know that rT3 is not a cause and that also rules out typical stress driven issues.

Hi,
I noticed this thread and I couldn’t help but feel like I was reading my own story and maybe my experience will help you in some way. If not, I am sorry. I had a very similar beginning story as to how I felt growing up, and after years of not feeling quite right and ever gaining muscle or having the sex drive that the average guy my age had, I found out that I have Hypothyroid which never got managed properly.

4 years ago my Testosterone was tested and my total test was about 450 ng/dl and I was 21 at the time that blood work was done and the doc said that it was a high number and should be thankful for that, and that’d he’d like to have numbers like that lol. Well, back then I had no idea so I went on for years thinking I was good. I still don’t know what he was thinking.

After constant researching and trying to dial in on what is causing my symptoms, and finally finding a decent doctor around here, we did some new blood work covering almost everything you could think of and found that my tsh was low as well as my testosterone being very low at below 150 ng/dl.

At this time I was feeling horrible and all my symptoms were misdiagnosed as anorexia because I had no appetite and couldn’t maintain muscle, and depression / bi polar from having no testosterone to drive me. I have always been very healthy my entire life and almost never get sick and didn’t have any issues.

My test was so low and my thyroid was working sub optimally and together set up the body for a chain of endocrine issue resulting in a further drop in testosterone. I was sleeping or eating optimally which has a negative impact on testosterone and thyroid which are probably the 2 primary factors in how well you will feel as a man (or woman for that matter) aside from sleep and nutrition themselves. So you should consider those areas first and make sure that those are dialed in so you set yourself up for success from the foundational level.

Also what we found to be the best first step was to establish a healthy thyroid level while ordering some pituitary specific tests as well as an MRI of my pituitary to find out why my test is shutdown. I recommend this to you as your thyroid levels are off, and by off (i mean not optimal to you as well as out of range). Fixing my thyroid 1st had a fast and very noticeable impact on many areas of my life and sense of well being.

Also learning to relax and not over research to the point of fixation which can induce or increase anxiety and stress which can set off a bunch of other hormonal and chemical issues that will increase cortisol and hurt you in the already mentioned areas.

It was found that I do not have a thyroid tumor but still worth doing the MRI, and blood test found that I had testicula failure due to an absence of LH and decreased FSH. The method of treatment that we decided to start with was HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) Subcutaneous injections 3 x a week (monday wednesday and friday) at 1000 iu per injection.

I started this treatment 4 months ago and my Free testosterone as of sat week was 1490 ng/dl which is too high and is causing me gyno like issues so I am putting together a protocol for that. I also had testicular pain and aches which were consistent with my condition of hypogonadism because the cause in my charts is “testicular failure”. The HCG therapy along with using Aromasin and correcting my Thyroid levels to Optimal not (in range) has greatly changed my life and yes I still have some of the symptoms but I went from all of your symptoms to just the gyno now which I think is on the mend.

Lastly, I was born very premature as well as I had a recent injury at work in which I suffered a slight blow to the head as well as a major blow to the body. I shared that with you because both have been said to be a possible cause for my sudden Hypogonadism symptoms and my sudden drop in testosterone. These are just things to consider from someone who is actually in the same boat as you so hopefully something in here will be of use to you or someone else. I would pursue the diagnosis and treatment of Hypogonadism and possible testicular failure and maybe get an ultrasound ordered for the achy testes. Good luck to you man.

Pcav89, Thank you for chiming in. Initially I was convinced I was suffering from some form of hypogonadism. I was at the brink of T therapy, my doctor was ready to oblige, thankfully advice on these forums cautioned me to leave this as a last resort. Low T sometimes is only a symptom and a small part of the bigger picture. Luckily this was the case for me, and as I learned more about my metabolic condition my testosterone issues resolved themselves. My single concern now is to understand better and tackle my adrenal and/or thyroid problems. Concerning your own situation, make sure you keep your estrogens in check.

Ksman,

Progesterone could be high because of my previous 6 month DHEA supplementation.

I have tried Vitamin D and noticed that I react very badly to it, it gives me brain fog and bad sense of wellbeing and lethargy. I haven’t understood if it’s the actual vitamin or the fatty oil it comes within. I’ve read some reports of a not so uncommon genetic mutation which can cause this. So I am taking every chance I have to step out in the sun, and every third-day I get 7 min UVB rays at a tanning bed. (they say 20mins of sunlight = 20’000UI)

I made a small diet alteration and started eating a lot of broccoli and blueberries, both well-known anti estrogens. within 2 day I saw the return of my morning wood. Thus, I’m looking forward for my low-dose test with anastrozole which will arrive this week.

Most importantly, I’m not sure what to make of my thyroid. Is it sub-clinical hypo? I thought pooling of FT3 was a clear indicator that I would have a high rT3. Perhaps I should have also checked for Hashi’s. I ordered some selenium first to load up before experimenting with iodine. will report back with body temperatures once I give it a shot.

The only hypothesis I that my cortisol is low and this is what is causing the pooling of FT3. So looking forward for those results.

For now I have in front of me the following options to try:
Adrenal Cortex (nutri-meds)
Porcine thyroid concentrate (nutri-meds)
Iodine (will try and report back)
Anatrozole (wil try and report back)

Are you trying to avoid medications altogether? synthroid often works well for most people and is available in small to large doses and many in-between. It might be a good idea to get another Doctor’'s opinion, just to back up the one that you currently have and possible reveal different issues and or treatment options.

In my opinion, when it comes to metabolic conditions of any kind that is, I firmly believe in nutrition being the absolute most incredibly impotent part of your life. As most of us know with bodybuilding, its the same with a lot of diseases, allergy conditions, and other unknown causes of ones symptoms are often resolved when diet is dialed down and unfortunately most doctors do not consider diet very much and in my experience when they do, its usually very basic information that everyone knows already.

I used to think I had celiac disease and I had a complete and so far permanent reversal of all those issues as well as improved thyroid which has been stabilized at a lower dose of my synthroid and all the rest of my blood work was optimal after I had just finished a 1 year 100 % Paleo diet trial. I’ve since changed to a more balanced diet however, I honestly found that while it was very strict and semi-controversial, the Paleo diet was extremely healing in many aspects of my health and I would recommend a 3 month trial followed by a really clean and balanced diet afterwards keeping sugar out or low. I’m sure in your research of “metabolic syndrome” you have come across the importance of “Gut Health” and all the things that go along with improving one’s gut health which is why I mentioned the pale diet as I found it to be very gut healing for me as I was the type to keep the meat portions small and realistic. I am confident you will see overall improvements there as well as I did and many people that I have met have as well. Anyways, sorry to blab so much I guess I am bored haha

CORTISOL 24 hour salivary test:

Cortisol Morning 7.2 ng/ml (3.7-9.5)
Cortisol Noon 0.6 ng/ml (1.2-3.0)
Cortisol Evening 2.2 ng/ml (0.6-1.9)
Cortisol Night 2.4 ng/ml (0.4-1.0)

There is no pathway from DHEA to progesterone, only from pregnenolone to progesterone.
See the diagram here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_hormone


Note that while your levels are at the high end, your levels are oddly similar to a child’s levels.

Your cortisol levels are strong. I have doubts about the second reading. - did you feel crashed at the time?
Your cortisol pattern is messed up.

Higher progesterone might be a factor here. Some progesterone–>cortisol can be outside of the pituitary ATCH feedback control loop.

We see some of this for some women who will get cortisol spikes when they apply pregnenolone cream at night which prevents sleep, but for other women, they find that progesterone cream improves sleep. There are a lot of variations in how things work from one person to another.

Good call on the selenium. You should have a good multivit that also has trace elements, including selenium and 150-180mcg iodine.

Trace elements are important as they form the catalytic hot spots in enzyme molecules that enable so many critical chemistries in the body.

You never responded to:
"""
Thyroid still odd. What are your temperatures lately? Have you started taking any iodine?

Now we know that rT3 is not a cause and that also rules out typical stress driven issues.
"""

KSman, please take a look at my 12 week labs if you get a chance, Thanks I think I’m getting a good understanding of things

CORTISOL

I cannot say that I felt especially crashed at noon that day. was surprised that the reading were high all-together. I suspected that my lower body temps and my symptoms were signs of LOW cortisol. I was also suspecting that my high hypo symptoms accompanied by high FT3 was because there wasn’t enough cortisol to transport into cells.

RT3

My result look fine according to the lab, they are low normal. However, sites like STTM advocate that you shouldn’t look at the rt3 independently, but you should compare them to ft3. According to them and other sources online - A healthy ratio of ft3/rt3 should be 20 or higher. I have a high normal FT3 and a low-normal RT3. Interestingly enough, the ratio is only 5.

No mistakes in my calculation. I used this source to convert and calculate: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/rt3-ratio/

So I went online and I checked out online and saw that the normal ranges for RT3. Most labs have reference rages of 90-350 pg/ml. My result is 66.63 ng/dl which is converts to 666 pg/ml. meaning SUPER HIGH.

I live and work in China. It could be that my levels according to the ranges here are great, but when converted and compared with normal ranges in the western world its super high. not sure what to make of it.

Hypothetically, having a high RT3 would explain my high cortisol numbers as the body would have to rely on the adrenals to make up for the slack of the thyroid.

IODINE/Temperatures

My order of dessicated porcine thyroid arrived before my Iodine (it’s like natural dessicated thyroid). So I gave it a shot. What happen was that I became to tense, nervous and it messed up my sleep. I will try Iodine when it arrives. The temperatures have not improved and are still low. In the morning usually around 96.80 afternoon 97.4 and evening 98.0

TRACE ELEMENTS

All my other trace elements seem to be fine, according to the labs on those. that’s why I only picked up selenium. will try and add Iodine when it arrives.

dessicated porcine thyroid:

  • take earlier in the day so levels will not be higher when you need to sleep
  • take less
  • is this pharmaceutical grade? Potency might not be controlled
  • your body may be over-reacting to the change, things may take time to find a balance

I don’t thing that I agree with what you say about cortisol. As for getting fT3 inside the cells, that brings up the subject of cell wall permeability. You need vitamins and trace elements for that. But EFA’s are very important. Fish oil, flax seed oil/meal, nuts.

This will keep you awake: Cortisol Night 2.4 ng/ml (0.4-1.0)

KSman are you a medical doctor or a biochemist? I keep seeing threads pop up and you are a fountain of knowledge. Very impressed. Its a very good deed to help someone who you don’t even know the way you always seem to do.

Anatrozole: Have been taking 0.5mg per week, divided in daily doses (Research Chem)

Cabergoline: 0.25mg two times per week. (Research Chem)

Using the above to help balance out my hormonal system by reducing PRL and E2. have been on it for 2 weeks. Not sure how long I should run them for. Thoughts?

Tried Lugols but It gave me too much anxiety and I was up for days without sleeping. I’m aware of detox symptoms but this seems like it was increasing my already high cort. gave up after a week. 1 drop per day. co-factors included.

Next step is to try and bring Cortisol down. will run Tianeptine for some time see if it gets the job done.

http://www.ncbi.nlm…/pubmed/1660816
http://www.ncbi.nlm…pubmed/12445834
http://www.tianeptin…hpa-stress.html

A-rod, I am a retired mechanical engineer

Shakespear, those links are broken

You are in China. Is that Lugols a Chinese knockoff?

No. bought it from j crow directly. the effects are there it just activates my stress response too much. I’m taking a drop 2% in a 1.5l water bottle, drink it over the course of 3 days, and still I feel overstimulated. Trouble sleeping, restless in my sleep, no more than 4 hours. waking up everyday 4-5am.