T Nation

25 Y/O on TRT - I Need Opinions. New Labwork, Contradictions


#1

Hello guys,

I’ve been lurking around here in read only mode for a while. 1 week ago, after literally years of going back and forth in my head I decided to give TRT a go. Not too many guys are on trt at this young age so I would like to share my story and experiences and to get some good advice from smart people and document my journey.

My story: around 11-12 year old I started to develop gynecomastia, despite I didnt touch any dietary supplement that time, not even whey. My only speculation is my mother used to put very hot tea to plastic water bottles thru all my childhood lol very bad stuff. I did all kinds of sports in my life, even competed till age 17, so lack of excercise wasnt the root cause. I was skinnyfat when started to use weight training at age 15. Despite I put a lot of smart work in it and kept a clean diet I didnt really develop too much. Age 17: my first anabolic cycle. 500mg Galenika Enanthate weekly for 8 weeks total. I felt great man, like a normal teenager I guess :smiley: I did a small pct afterwards, 2x5000 IU HCG and some nolva (I know now HIGH doses of HCG can ‘fry’ the system also). Didnt noticed any problems, only benefits, so I touched stronger stuff too. I had 4 cycles in my life, my last one had trenbolone in it- a known prolactin f*cker and I was 19. I dont remember exact amount(could look up in the abyss of my archives, but see no reason right now) but I never used too big of doses, or longer cycles than 10 weeks. For sure this didnt help my previously interrupted system and I do not recommend anyone taking AAS before age 25.

Had a skull MRI with contrast dye and I have no sign of any disease in my head. That was when I was 20. Came accross so many idiot doctors in my (almost) third world country that I gave up on them. I wasnt feeling good since that age, but I compensated with very good diet&excercise and a little bit weed to help coping with depression. I experiment quitting weed for extended periods (half year and couple 2-3 months) but that didnt help with depression and lack of motivation. I never really had ED except when my prolactin was very high ( couple months period). But I became a one shooter guy without PDE5ih. As I do not like using them at all I dropped’em and strengthen my PC muscles and took herbs ( arginine supps, maca, ginsengs, royal jelly, horny g weed, mucuna, -you name it and i probably tried it). Libido wasnt that high in past years, sometimes I looked at beatiful woman more like ppl look at a piece of art rather than something I desire. Had pretty girlfriends throught the years despite this and never really had bedrooom issues, except I was only capable 1/day, but with good stamina. If I felt GF got unpatient or had some valley in relationship than I just took some V or C occassionally ( 5-6 times a year maximum)

So till age 24 I just got by somehow. I managed to solved most of my depression and other mental problems with learning a lot and CBT, so things arent that bad but I just want some more quality to my life. Based on my past steroid abuse and previously interrupted hormonal system and very very low test I qualified myself for trt. Even at 20-21 wanted to jump on trt but gave this no trt route couple years, just good lifestyle etc.
Half year ago I had bad joint pain and I researched I could use 20mg ostarine for 30 days. I felt great on it and my joints felt reborn. I figured maybe its because it lowers SHBG and ‘frees’ up more TEST but I had stronger libido and everything that comes with it, and maybe more free test: better joints. Even my mild stuttering got lot better!! So I started to get interested in TRT again.

RESTART ATTEMPTS: Tried restarting couple of times, a protocol including HCG, nolva, clomid, toremifene, cabergoline - not everything at one time. I decided HCG only and Clomid only treatment is way too many sides for me. LH and FSH was good for a while as test, but then it dropped to baseline
I had couple BWs before this but unfortunately was on a hdd I dont have.
BW from 2012 may (this was after a PCT)
TSH 5,05 ( 0,35-4,94)
T3 4,3* (1,71-3,71)
T4 1,55 (0,7-1,8)
FSH 3,15 (1-8)
LH 3,5 (2-12)
Prolactin 9,7 (1,2-10,7)
Thyreoglobulin 17 (3-80)
Total test: 5 (2,8-8)

2012 aug: (after couple weeks of caber)
IGF 1 235 (141-483)
HGH 2,4 (0-8)
TSH 4,5 (0,27-4,2)
FT3 6 (3,1-6,8)
Prolactin: 152 (86-324)
Test: 10 (9,9-28)
SHBG: 26 (14,5-48)
FSH: 2 (1,5-12,4)
LH: 2.5 (1,7-8,6)
Estradiol 60 <156
Cortisol: 220 (171-536)

2013 may (after HCG and clomid. seems like it didnt help too much with test, but raised a bit since last bw)
Total test 15 (10-26,6)
DHEA: 7,2 ( didnt write down range but I was prescribed DHEA after this by endo)

2014 oct:
FT4: 17 (12-22)
FT3 5,5 (3,1-6,8)
Dvit: 169 (75-250)
FSH: 2,9 (1,5-12,4)
LH: 4 (1,7-8,6)
Prolactin: 170 (86-324)
e2: 73 (28-156)
Total test: 17 (11-27,9)
Free test: 2 (1,6-2.9)
SHBG: 31,7 (13-71)

2018. 03.11.
Albumin 50 (35-52)
TSH: 1,6 (0,4-4)
LH: 4,7 (1,24-8,2)
FSH: 3,31 (1,17-19,26)
Eostradiol: 88 (0-172,5)
Tot Test: 6,7 (6,1-27,1)
SHBG: 34 (13,3-89,5)
Prolactin: 150 (86-324)

So after this BW started extensive research once again and Decided to start TRT.

Symptoms:
*depression (mostly eliminated by hard mental work)
*joint pains- it was very easy to get ache from training a bit harder
*lack of social needs except my actual GFs
*loss of libido
*muscle loss
*lack of motivation - despite this I learned and worked a lot
*gynecomastia
*soft, squishy muscles despite trying all sorts of diet plans
*terrible sleep, lots of dreaming

hair: very thick and full beard, my hair was thinning on my head when used anabolics but I managed to stop hairloss since then (royal jelly, topical stuffs, good diet, minerals vitamins)

Also started supplementing with Iodine (kelp extract and spirulina) as well as selenium. Measured temperature it is constantly 36,5-36,7 every morning.

My protocol:
20mg Test Propionate Every day
150 HCG Every day

Arimidex 0,25mg 2x/week( as I had gyno issues and surgery and I think in last blood work my estro is pretty high compared to how low my testosterone is.)

I researched fertility and trt and came to conclusion that I still have very good chances if I want to have kids . But just to make sure I will go to a sperm bank in couple of weeks and get some of my magic bullets freezed up :smiley:

My FSH is pretty low. Would it be benefical to start some HMG?

I’m open to any advice with my protocol or whatever. :slight_smile:

Thank you,
PRF


#2

Most need ~1mg anastrozole per 100mg T ester.
Suspect E2 is too high and E2=22pg/ml seems optimal for most.
Take 0.5mg anastrozole twice a week

You can inject T and hCG EOD. Every day has no advantage.

TSH should be near 1.0
Thyroid lab ranges are useless.

We need:

  • history of not using iodized salt
  • oral body temperatures - see below

Do not test HGH directly, IGF-1 is your GH status


Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab number and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.


#3

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah I didn’t use iodized salt everyday, but supplemented around 800 mcg/once a week from kelp, but after reading your posts here I bumped up my dose for couple of weeks.

My avg temp is 36,4 and it was not once lower than 36,2 in a sample size of 10.

So would u shoot 40mg eod? I’ve read it has half life 2.25days so in my head it looks like Ed inj will give me steadier levels. But it’s all my theory, what do u think?


#4

Hello guys,

Some update, good news! :smiley:

Went thought 3 ampules of 100mg test propionate and also took 1x daily Andriol. I had Andriol sit in my cabinet for couple years and decided to supplement a bit in the start. In my head it gives me faster results and have a different path of absortion , but maybe its not correct. Have only 60 caps so wont last for long.

I ordered anastrazole and got it, already took 0.5mg as adviced. I feel my nipples are a bit sensitive but they were before too. Despite the fact I had gynecomastia surgery at 18yo (I know not every bit of breast tissue was tore out, but I definetly had less tissue there than before).

Feelings so far: I feel pretty good even though I have big changes in my life I handle it better than I expected. I definetly feel more confident and despite not sleeping well I have better energy.

Still no real morning woods but I have some spontanous er and higher libido overall.

One thing I noticed is my muscles are harder. I feel more toned and even moving is a bit more “effortless”.

I guess things going good so far.

In my country theres no trt so Im on my own ( even if you want to get treated well for lets say a broken bone you have to pay hefty money in doctors pocket) . I will do labtest in 1 month to see how my numbers are at.

I appreciate any help!


#5

Hello,

A little update here.

So I started to take arimidex at 0.5 dosage as recommended here. I never felt so bad in a long period as I did after taking the second dose in my life. I thought I must have crashed my estrogen so I decreased my dosage to 0.25. That was 2 weeks ago. I start to feel better for sure. Here is the surprise. My estradiol is insanely high. Unfortunately they didnt have sensitive essay tho.

Albumine: 50 g/l (ref: 35-52)
TSH: 1.9 mIU/l (ref: 0.55-4,8)
Prolactine: 161 mIU/l (ref: 45-375)
Estradiol: 202 pmol/l(!!!) (ref: 0-146)
SHBG 29 nmol/l (ref: 17-66)
Total test: 75nmol/l (!!!) (ref: 5.7- 26)
DHEA-s 9 umol/l (ref: 0.94 -15.44)
HGH 0,06 (!!!) (ref:0 - 3)
IGF1 (in progress)

Based on my SHBG, albumin and test:
Free test: 2.06 nmol/l
Bioavailable test:56nmol/l ( 75%)

As I see my total test is insanely high. Not sure as I do not take that much. I think I have to cut down a bit, probably 15. Also my hgh seems surprisingly low for my age, but in 2 weeks im gonna do another labwork.

My protocol is 20mg Test prop ED, HCG 250 IU EOD.Arimidex was 0.25 3x a week And now I bump the dosage to 0.5mg twice a week or 0.25mg 4x a week.

I felt pretty good for a while. Even tho it seems my estradiol is crazy I got shredded and lots of excessive fluids and fat left my body, so I really dont get it.

My questions:

-What to do with hgh situation? Its very low for my age I guess.
-Am I an overresponder to test or what cause this?
-Prolactin is good?
-Is it possible to feel terrible on arimidex, even tho it seems like I am not an overresponder to this as I thought? Maybe it was the insanely high test started to aromatize like crazy and it was only a coincidence I started to feel shitty?

Thanks for the help.