T Nation

25 / Male. T at Low End of "Normal"


#1

I’m not sure if it’s ever been high but I’m sure it’s been higher this. It was tough to get doctors to take it seriously. I got a lot of “Is it low T is just marketing”, “everybody would be happier if they were taking testosterone”, etc.

I pressured them into running labs.
Here’s what’s what:
TESTOSTERONE TOTAL 241.0 - 827.0 ng/dl 310.8
PROLACTIN 2.10 - 17.70 ng/ml 15.21
LUTEINIZING HORMONE 1.24 - 8.62 MIU/ML 4.67
FSH 1.27 - 19.26 MIU/ML 4.91
ALBUMIN 3.5 - 5.1 g/dL 4.6

My doc tried a 3 month course of T then pulled me off it saying this would restart things. A couple weeks after stopping it, total T was slightly lower at 298.

My doc (endo) thinks it was caused by stressful life events: losing a job, breaking up, and moving to a different city all at once.

Appetite has never been great. Diet is not the healthiest. I eat pretty greasy when I do eat a lot. I did quit smoking, but I still drink a bit.

I never had it tested before, but knowing what I know I know I’ve had other periods of low T in the past. Sometimes for months at a time.


Doc Prescribed High Dose HCG
#2

Your endo is an idiot. Dosing T won’t reset anything and will likely shut you down further.

Read the HPTA restart sticky. That’s what you should be trying, though your LH and FSH is higher than what I’d like to see for a restart.


#3

Ok so I went to Andro and got a spermanalysis and its all Normal. Mobility seems a little on the low end of Normal. Volume is high end of normal. Count is in the middle.


#4

Spermanalysis isn’t really a diagnostic tool for TRT. Are you concerned about fertility? If so, consider SERM or HCG+T.


#5

Your doc is an insult to the profession and even more so to the speciality he practices. Even a person with no knowledge of hormones could tell you exogenous testosterone will make you stop making your own testosterone so for a doc to get you on exogenous testosterone and then get you off to “restart” things is one of the most idiotic and shameful things that can happen.


#6

So I’m definitely not happy with this doc, but at this point I get to decide for myself whether to do TRT so I might as well keep in touch with this doc.

If I wasn’t worried about fertility I’d do it in a heartbeat. That’s why I wanted to see baseline numbers from Andro.

Endo wants to try HCG and see if that works.

I just switched from an HMO to a PPO so I might be able to get ahold of genuinely competent people now.


#7

Oh another thing.

I can’t take Clomid. It makes my eyes hurt and my vision blur.


#8

You could try nolva, but HCG is probably a better bet if you were experiencing sides.


#9

I’ve been on HCG for a couple weeks now. I don’t know if I see much difference. I was told it would take a few weeks. I remember T being incredibly noticeable.

I’m gradually getting over the discomfort with intramuscular administration.

Relations with the Endo have gotten better. They were surprisingly receptive to the idea of me getting a lot of my own advice from forums. This went over pretty well.

On the other hand, they don’t seem to care that people on here usually do HCG + AI + T. I was told to just stick to HCG and wait for it to “kick in”.


#10

I don’t think I ever correctly stated this, but I’m not necessarily following the HPTA restart thread because this has been life long, although with relative ups and downs. I think my Endo was wrong to pin it on work and ex gf.

Anther thing: I had an MRI and it came up “fine”. They did notice a cyst but they’re telling me “it’s nothing”. Granted, these are the same people who told me the whole thing was nothing in the first place. Tomorrow I’ll get a little more information about the cyst.

My insurance would approve a genetic test so I’m going to take it. Endo, with their typical bias toward inaction, told me it’s unlikely to reveal anything and I probably shouldn’t bother. It’s true that I don’t have any Klinefelter like symptoms. Clearly, given the Andro results, certain genetic disorders are ruled out.


#11

Given what some other people have said on this forum, I am on a very high dose of HCG. I was presribed 4,000 units per week.

I’m wondering if these are different units.

I’m hearing credible people say 350 EOD or 1,000 / week.


#12

As pointed out in the HPTA restart sticky …

A road to failure. Your T–>E2 will be very high, SHBG will be increasing. When you stop hCG, testes will see a large drop in LH stimulation and that is exactly the wrong signal. Elevated E2 can lead to rebound and shutdown.

Do not assume that doctors have thought any of this through.


#13

So I’m not sure if I should be following HPTA restart given that my leve was probably never much higher than the 300’s, except on T.

I’m in the waiting room right now, so first thing, I guess I’ll just try to lower the HCG?

BF


#14

Just had Endo appointment.

Was told that 2,000/week HCG is standard, given a scare about AI being a cancer drug, told I would get osteoporosis if I take an AI and can only take it if I get gynecomastia. I said how about a low dose. Endo said a standard dose totally eliminates E levels because it’s a cancer drug. So I said what about a lower dose, was given an arbitrary appeal to authority and told to stop asking about AI.

So the plan they have in mind is for me to check back in in 4 months and take HCG for a year long “trial”.


#15

Holy crap. What a prick


#16

Also they gave the responses people on here predicted about route of admin for HCG. They are saying to use IM because it’s “standard” so I can’t do sub Q. They can’t give a non circular answer to “but why”. So I’m still stuck with these mile long needles.

I’m calling around now but everybody else is booked 4 months out.


#17

You can get insulin needles. 1/2" is good for SC and IM.
Just do whatever you can or want to do.

The study, 2005, that concluded that 250iu EOD was a good LH replacement dose was SC, not IM.

hCG as an agent to induce female ovulation is a huge dose and was IM because delivery was meant to be huge and sudden. Large volumes SC are suspect as might leak. The dosing is typically injected by the patient at home and IM will not leak. So the drug literature is IM centric. All peptide hormones can be injected SC or IM [insulin, hMG, hCG etc] You could also use a 5/16" 7-8mm insulin syringe.

“hCG, delivered SC every other day for 3 wk”