T Nation

25 and Low T

age - 25
-height- 5-10
-waist- 33
-weight - 205
-Normal body hair, nice thick facial hair, no sign or balding
-mostly carry fat around the waist, not much on legs or arms
-had shingles once about six years ago
-take adderall on occasion

Quest did the testing but I don’t have a hard copy yet to get the ranges tested at 9am
DHEA-S 239 mcg/dL (110-510)
FSH 1.6 mIU/mL (1.6-8.0)
LH 5.1 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3
Estradiol 19 pg/mL (<-39)
Testost 256 ng/dL (250-1100)
Testost Free 63.3 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)

-Diet is some what good, mostly grilled chicken breasts, pasta, oatmeal, turkey bacon, eggs for breakfast, I try to avoid sugars, no soda’s, drink a lot of 2% milk, eat out once every two weeks. Some snacks I eat are almonds, peanut butter, cashews.

-Train 4 days a week, never more than an hour, usually do a back/shoulders day, leg day then chest, and whatever on the fourth day. I drink M5 for a pre-work out, Combat Powder protein after I lift but only around 35gs. I have put on a lot of muscle in the last six months to the point where people notice. I didn’t know that was possible with my t being so low

-balls never hurt or ache

  • morning woods are always there, always have nocturnal erections too. low sex drive tho

I haven’t received a hard copy of my labs yet so I don’t have the ranges. See anything wrong in those results. I also have previous labs that show my test at 255 and they also did a lipid panel

LH moves around a lot and a snap shot of a moving target is not very useful. FSH is a better indicator of what is going on due to its longer half life, and that is low.

TT is consistent with your low FSH. So, probably a case of secondary hypogonadism.

  • we need to try to find why your pituitary output is inhibited
  • at your age, we have to consider a pituitary adinoma
  • those are often prolactin secreting
  • a serum prolactin lab test will rule that in or out
  • if prolactin is high a MRI is called for
  • pituitary adinomas are often successfully managed with Dostinex/cabergoline

need the lab data

Concerned that cholesterol may be too low, based on diet.

Please reread the advice for new guys sticky and note and reply to thyroid, body temperature, iodized salt issues.

You are currently estrogen dominant with your T been low, however, it does not appear that E2 is causing the low T.

You can look for and try to fix/treat any underlying conditions/pathologies. And you could also try hGH/SERM based restart.

Shingles at age 19, suggestive of a weak immune system. The virus hides in our nerve tissue for life. When people age, they are at risk for virus breakout as their immune systems are less able to deal with things. Shingles can be triggered by another illness/infection or trauma.

I appreciate the reply, my GP is sending me to a urologist. Not sure how helpful he will be from reading about other members interactions with urologist’s but I guess I can give it a try. My moms GP said he treats low T so that may be another option.

I will check out the sticky and post back this weekend

Had Prolactin tested and it came back 14 (4-30 ng/ml) but my t was even lower at 178.

[quote]KSman wrote:
LH moves around a lot and a snap shot of a moving target is not very useful. FSH is a better indicator of what is going on due to its longer half life, and that is low.

TT is consistent with your low FSH. So, probably a case of secondary hypogonadism.

  • we need to try to find why your pituitary output is inhibited
  • at your age, we have to consider a pituitary adinoma
  • those are often prolactin secreting
  • a serum prolactin lab test will rule that in or out
  • if prolactin is high a MRI is called for
  • pituitary adinomas are often successfully managed with Dostinex/cabergoline

need the lab data

Concerned that cholesterol may be too low, based on diet.

Please reread the advice for new guys sticky and note and reply to thyroid, body temperature, iodized salt issues.

You are currently estrogen dominant with your T been low, however, it does not appear that E2 is causing the low T.

You can look for and try to fix/treat any underlying conditions/pathologies. And you could also try hGH/SERM based restart.

Shingles at age 19, suggestive of a weak immune system. The virus hides in our nerve tissue for life. When people age, they are at risk for virus breakout as their immune systems are less able to deal with things. Shingles can be triggered by another illness/infection or trauma. [/quote]

Seen endo and he gave me testosterone injections at 100mg per week. Actually he wrote it once every 14 days and we went round and round about it. I also checked my temperatures in the morning soon as i woke up.

They were
95.7
95.1
95.0

I read the sticky on temperatures. All my girlfriend uses is the sea salt so would switching to the dirty salt be a good fix or would I need to look into something else?.. Thanks

The mineral rich rock salts are not a useful source of iodine.

KSman im in the kansas city area. I believe i read a post where you may be too. I have a doc to give me the t shots but he won’t do HCG and my pm’s dont work yet.

Talk to Troy at Midwest Compounding and explain your needs and see if you can get a referral. They know docs scripting hCG. At your age, this really is important. You can start here: http://www.mwcpharmacy.com/consultations.htm

There are budget and insurance issues as most of the competent docs [the few] do not take insurance.

With type 2 hypogonadism, what the hell would a urologist know?

What are you going to do about iodine? Read the “thyroid basics” sticky!

I have a appointment at KU Med Center to hopefully figure out the thyroid issue. My temps are super low all day long. I have never seen my temp over 97. I have read the sticky and it looks like I need to find a good supplement but i’m still looking in to them

any suggestions on them? I seen one like kelp?..

It never imagined doctors could be this stupid. Sent me home with t shots in less than a 5 minutes visit. 10ml bottle and pins. He asked “Do you want kids” I said yeah in about a year and he said that taking “testosterone wouldn’t affect it”

Kelp for iodine would be OK for a maintenance dose, but totally inadequate for IR. With Iodoral, you would take 50mg for two weeks.

I have been on the Iodoral for about a week and I have a appointment at KU Med Center to figure out whats causing the low t, I’m assuming its something to do with the low temps all the time. They haven’t improved much on the Iodoral.

Instead of doing TRT, I’m just going to run a cycle for 10 weeks. The endo gave me a script for the single use 1ml bottles for the year filled every two weeks. Then I asked for the 10ml bottle so they wrote me a script to another pharm. So basically I have two 10ml bottles and three 1ml bottles, liquid Arimidex and liquid Nolva. My appointment isn’t until the middle of July. So the plan is to be off everything by then and hopefully I can figure something out.

My temps are always low. So it may be a thyroid issue. I believe from everything I have read that this low t is just a symptom of something else.

My question is dosing on the Arimidex. Its 1mg/ml I think about 6 drops would be about right every other day. And when to start the nolva and dosing on it. I appreciate all your help man.

Have you ever messed with steroids, test, or booster?

Something is suppressing your FSH/LH

Even though your prolactin is not high, not all adenomas secrete prolactin. Some secrete other hormones and some don’t secrete anything at all. It would be hard to get an MRI approved in your case.

Do you have problems with peripheral vision?

Test hormones made by the pituatary. If there is abnormalities you have a stronger case.

TSH (not made by pituitary, but necessary: FT3, FT4, TPO, and, TgAB)
GH and (made in liver in response to GH) IGF1
ACTH

If there is no adenomas the next step is a restart attempt with Nolvadex.
If the SERM restart fails, but it reinforces that the problem is secondary HCG monotherapy.
If all else fails T+HCG+AI

If you want kids, you really need HCG. You should save some sperm at a bank just in case. You can inject HMG to boost sperm count and leave a good sample.

Nope never messed with anything including weight lifting. Been lifting 8 months today.

I was wondering if a MRI would be beneficial. Doctors love things like that but I wonder if they could find a reason too. Maybe I could complain about a pain or something?

No probably with peripheral vision, is there something I should look for? I have terrible eye sight tho.

I want to go back and get more tests done to find out if it may be something to do with the low temps.

I started the test injections at a 100mg a week between two shots but bumped it up to run a cycle instead of doing trt. I am going to use Nolvadex at the end of the cycle hoping it may help with a restart. Then a few weeks alter ill be getting everything checked.

How much is the cost to leave sperm at a bank?

I appreciate the reply too, this stuff is frustrating but you all help out more than any doctor I ever met.

It would be nice to have the MRI to be sure, but if prolactin isn’t elevated its hard to get it approved.

When an adenoma gets big enough it can cause problems with peripheral vision. Low T can make nearsightedness worst.

You really need to check your thyroid and log your temps.

TSH FT3 FT4 With temps that low it would be good to check the antibodies I mentioned before.
GH IGF1
ACTH
Cortisol
Vit D
Would be nice to get, if you don’t already have cholesterol and CBC.

You really need to keep E2 in control especially since you bumped up the dose.

I don’t know how much it costs, but some places charge a monthly fee for storage.

Are you feeling better?

Yeah I feel great, my libido is thru the roof on just the 100mg a week. I’m going to check with my GP and see if she can help me get those things checked.

Temp this morning checked soon as I woke up at 96.1 I am going to get a second thermometer to double check.

Any suggestions on dosing the Anastrozole? Its 1mg/ml in 60ml bottle. I counted out 20 drops equal 1ml in my dropper. Is it more beneficial to take ED or EOD. I do injections on Sunday night and Wednesday night. I was going to wait to take the Anastrozole until I felt like I needed it but it seems to be like most guys start it right off.

Also I have been having headaches that almost feels like its being caused by neck pain. Could be me sleeping wrong but I wonder if that would be a related issue and could get me a MRI?

[quote]Tunapancake wrote:
If you want kids, you really need HCG. You should save some sperm at a bank just in case. You can inject HMG to boost sperm count and leave a good sample.[/quote]

In the San Francisco Bay area (very high cost of living), it’s $750 for the first year deposit a single sample and $200 per year after for storage. More for multiple samples. Have been researching quite a bit and haven’t heard of many people actually doing this.

Test: 2160 (250-1100)
Free T: 670.3 (35.0-155.0) ? This seems odd? Maybe a false lab?
FSH: .07 (1.6-8.0)
E2: 56 (< or =29) Still dialing in with liquid
Cortisol: .27 (.04-.45)
T4: 1.2 (.08-1.8)
TSH: .58 (0.40-4.50)
PSA: .08 (<or=4.0)
Vit D: 43 (30-100)

TSH is low, Anyone see anything else? It looks like I need to figure out this thyroid but I cant find a doc worth a damn here in Kansas City. Is there something that could cause it to be low or is it just something that happens sometimes.

With my test this high, I still feel tired. I only work three days a week so I’m off the majority of the week. I sleep 7-10 hours a night, eat somewhat clean 3500 calories a day, exercise 4 days a week. And I’m still tired and lagging all the time. Temps are still low all through out the day. Around 97 typically.

lol is this even your log?

[quote]iw84aces wrote:
lol is this even your log?[/quote]

I don’t have a log, I prefer to keep everything in one post instead of creating alot of them. Something wrong with that?