T Nation

24 with Hormonal Imbalances- Switched to TRT


#1

Hi All,

-age 24
-height 5,7
-waist not sure 34 Inch’s or 86 cm.
-weight 76 KG ( around 13-14% body fat )
-describe body and facial hair Got alot of chest hair + a bit of hair on the shoulders, good amount of hair on the butt, and good beard. ( typical arab)
-describe where you carry fat and how changed, I carry alot of fat around the belly and in the butt, this is very new, always was low on weight until end of 2014.
-health conditions, symptoms Anxiety and depression.
-Rx and OTC drugs, Klonopin 2mg Daily, and Keppra 500mg Daily.

  • I have a varicose in the left side of the sack, doctor said its not a problem if it doesn’t bother me I shouldn’t worry about it…
  • Using a hair product named regaine minoxidil 5%
  • Gym supplements: Combat Cassein, Nitrotech whey, gold standerd whey, Xtend BCCA, Opt-men multi vitamines, pre-workout BPI 1.M.R Vortex, and Animal flex for joints.

-lab results with ranges as of April 28th 2016:
Testoserone Total ( TT) 5.29 ng/ML 2.49-8.36
Free Testosterone (FT) 9.2 pg/mL 9.3-26.5
Estradiol (E2) 60.33 pmol/L 94.80-223.00
LH <0.1 mIU/ML 1.70-8.60
FSH <0.1mIU/mL 1.70 -8.60
SHBG 25.7 nmol/L 14.5-48.4
Prolacin 11.21 ng/mL 4.04-15.20
Estrogens, Total 73 pg/mL 40-115

Please note i was previously on TRT and my last shot was 4 month ago ( Nebido has a half life of 12 weeks) did a 1 month of clomid February 1 month after the shot. Been of the TRT since Jan 2016. more explained about that below. took 1 month cycle of Clomid 50mg daily to restart my LH FSH and increase my sperm after the Nebido as per my doctors instructions.

-describe diet, Currently on a high protein diet, medium carb, low fat.
So my daily food would be morning 2 eggs + 2 slices of bread, lunch would be a Chicken salad + Sweet potatoes, dinner would be chicken or beef. On the weekend I go crazy with food like TGI fridays, texas roadhouse and so on. but its mostly protein junk food.

-describe training Train 5 days a week, had a shoulder surgery so i cant push the weights that much, i do about 15-20 minutes cardio 2-3 times a week.
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed, I barely have morning erections, and nocturnal erection are just bad…

More about my story:

So basically, about 1 year ago I was diagnosed with low T based on my symptoms and only ONE test:

Did Total T and it came back at around 300, the range was 270 to 1070. So the doctor put me on Sustanol 250. I did 1 shot every 21 days, and that was fine, then the sustanol 250 was out of stock in my country so i had to switch to Nebido, I took my first shot of Nebido and then 6 weeks later took a booster shot, then 12 weeks later before the next shot did a total test and it came back low, like 350 or something, therefore we assumed the Nebido was being consumed faster than its actual half life so we decreased the timing from 12 weeks to 6 weeks, and did that for about 4-6 shots until i had so much anxiety depression insomnia and the list goes on

I quit the TRT and could say i felt 90% better… now thinking back in time and looking at my current situation i felt low on my T, i dont loose my belly fat even though i’m on such a hardcore diet and I workout 5 times a week, so now with feeling so shitty and low on energy and cant get out of bed, cant have a proper sex life always tired and exhausted…

I decide that i need to go back on the TRT but of-course do a full blood work and check up and do it properly this time.

Thank you for reading, wish you can advise on why my hormones are on wack.


Bruised Injection Site
#2

See links found here: About the T Replacement Category

advice for new guys - do not ignore references to iodine, body temperatures and thyroid
things that damage your hormones
protocol for injections
HPTA restart

You are completely shutdown and clomid id not work. Probably failed because attempt was clumsy and your T levels were not cleared out.

Your doctor is an idiot, but most are. In the EU, you do not have good options for drugs or doctors. Where are you located? UK?

At your age, you should have considered low-T to be the symptom, not the disease and looked fro the cause and attempted to fix it.

You need to be testing:
TT
FT
E2
CBC
hematocrit


#3

Hi KSman, So I assumed my T is shut down, because of the <0 LH and FHS, will probably have to redo the clomid or an HCG…

You said I should look for the cause and effect at my age, but the only possible cause i can think of was a medicine named Champix that i used to stop smoking, when I took that med a few month after I quit smoking and quit that drug, I noticed i gained 7 kg’s, and just from there everything went south, after that I didn’t know why or whats lowering my T anymore… still cant find the cause so I can try and eliminate it.

I am located in the U.A.E, Dubai…

I did also do the testing just 2 days ago and no T injections we’re given for 4 month prior…
TT 5.29 ng/ML Range 2.49-8.36
FT 9.2 pg/mL Range 9.3-26.5
E2 60.33 pmol/L Range 94.80-223.00
CBC Was previously done on TRT and all came back well
hematocrit Was previously done on TRT and all came back well.

I am just shocked that my body is completely shut down on T, but I’m still able to have get up in the morning for work and get to the gym and so on…

I added the below as i edited my post:

  • I have a varicose in the left side of the sack, doctor said its not a problem if it doesn’t bother me or whatever and shouldn’t worry about it…
  • Using a hair product named regaine minoxidil 5%
  • Gym supplements: Cassein, whey, BCCA, Opt-men multi vitamins, pre-workout, and Animal flex for joints.

What would you recommend?
Do I need to carry out more tests at this stage? Will I need another restart for my LH and FSH to work again? or maybe HCG this time?

My next appointment with the Urologist is on Satutday therefore I can prepare whatever I need to ask him from now.


#4

Have you ever used an oral hair loss drug? A 5-alpha reductase inhibitor?

These drugs kill the HPTA in some men.

Weight gain:
Have you been using iodized salt?
Ever feel cold easily? Maybe a dumb question for your climate.

Recommend? Read the stickies. Read the HPTA restart sticky/link.


#5

I haven’t taken any hair loss drugs etc so I dont think this is the cause. I have read the sticky about restarting the HPTA.

I did gain alooot of weight, but that was because I quit smoking and also came of an SSRI… don’t think that is related to dropping T levels. I don’t suddenly feel cold, but I will defiantly get a full thyroid t1 t2 t3 and the other tests done this week.

Im gna do the HPTA restart, with 20mg clomid or nolvadex for 6 weeks, then test, if all is well how long will i need to stay on the SERM for, or do i go down to 12.5 EOD for 2-3 weeks, then 12.5 E3D for 1 week then stop, with the addition of Anastozole 0.5 a week during the entire time? also do i tapper the anastozole?

Thanks alot for your help in such a short time, you gave me so much information than my doctor could…


#6

I would stay on 0.5mg anastrozole per week for a while to get labs done that reflect your post PCT state, then you can taper off of that and hopefully things are good.


#7

Just curious… why the dosage of 20-25mg and not 50mg? also why 4-6 weeks and not 12 weeks… Finally i will stay on 0.5mg anastrozole per week during the entire time im taking clomid + after clomid for a few weeks ? also how can i tapper off 0.5 a week of anastrozole?

One more thing is my E2 low : (E2) 60.33 pmol/L 94.80-223.00 What range should be around for Male in his 23?


#8

With many guys, with less T to convert to E2, E2 can be lower. That is normal and not a concern. With TRT and high-normal T levels, around E2=22pg/ml seems to be optimal for libido, fat, energy and mood.

High dose SERMs can create high LH levels that then drive a lot of T–>E2 inside the testes and anastrozole cannot affect that and E2 can be high and uncontrollable.

Tapering off low dose anastrozole needs making of a liquid with anastrozole+vodka and dispensing small amounts of that.


#9

Thank you very much for all your help!!

As of now, i just took my first 25mg Clomid, will do this for 6 weeks .
Do I need to take clomid in the morning or it doesnt matter?

my proctocol will be
Clomid 25 MG EOD and also maintain 0.5 anastrozole once weekly.

After 6 weeks will test LH FSH, TT,FT,E2 if all is well, will drop down to 12.5 for two weeks EOD, and then drop down from EOD to E3D for 2 weeks, and then discontinue, while tapering anastrozole

Question… When do i need to test after the first 6 weeks? How many more tests to be done to determine if the restarts is successful and what the interval of the tests?

One last thing, should I even bother going to the doctor on Saturday to maybe ask about a few things? o I have everything i need? i dont need any prescription to get clomid or anastrozole… but i can ask him for HCG…


#10

You must take anastrozole in divided doses. EOD is best but 0.25mg twice a week 3 days apart also works. Don’t take once a week as half life does not support that.


#11

Lab timing is hard to call. In general, if you are feeling a lot better, just ride it out. Its also a question of time+money.


#12

So just left the doctors office, he advise that it’s normal that levels are shut down as I stopped TRT & Clomid… Told him about the 25mg of Clomid EOD to restart… He insisted I need to take 50mg EOD because 25mg is to low and it won’t increase my tests levels… Also I told him what about the estorgen and E2 becoming to high from the high dose of Clomid. He said not gna yet high in my case it only happens with fat people and so on… And Insisted 50mg EOD and see him in 1 month, but the only tests he wants to do are TT & FT. I told him no were gna test FT TT E2 and FSH LH…

I assume he wants to keep me on Clomid to keep my TT & FT stable instead of TRT

Anyways what do i do now as he said something and he states that my case is different I’m not obese so my E2 and estrogens won’t rise even on Clomid…

In one month

Please advice


#13

E2 will definitely rise on clomid regardless of fat or not fat! It’s just how clomid works.


#14

I’m about 20% BF (and losing) but clomid brought my E2 levels uncomfortably high in short order on 12.5mg/day. I don’t think 20% BF is obese…


#16

Just passed by the pharmacy to get the anastozle and it costs 200$… That’s a lot of money and j can’t afford that right now… Is there any other way to take the Clomid without having to taking the anastozle ??’

Or if I Switch to nolvadex maybe I don’t need the anastozle …?


#17

Are you in the US? Costco Pharmacy has 30 pills for ~20$.

Also keep in mind that 30 pills could easily be a year’s supply if you are dosing at .5mg/week.


#19

can you import? alldaychemist

You could also shop it around or negotiate. 200$ for 28 generic pills seem steep. Pharmacies vary over here quite a bit. It would have been 150$ at Walgreens.


#20

Cant import… gotta buy it locally and can’t negotiate it’s a pharmacy and I checked another one they all seem to be selling a box of armedix that contains 28 pills for 200$ … actually 180$…

Can I supplement with something else? Or use any other alternative?


#21

Look for generic version of anastozole which is what arimidex is in essence. Brand arimidex is much more expensive than generic.


#22

Will try and look for it generic version…
On the other hand if i don’t find that, will my attempt to restart HPTA fail without the anastozole ?

the current plan is Clomid 25mg EOD for 4 weeks, then test LH,FSH,TT,FT,E2 … No anastozole on hand atm,…