T Nation

24, Oral vs Injectable and Advice on First Cycle


#1

hey all, been a loyal t nation reader for about 10 years now, lifting for about the same amount and total lifting geek. love all things related to fitness and this is also my first post. myself and a lifting buddy have been natural for our entire careers and are looking into taking that plunge into PEDs.

My main question is are the liver problems associated with orals really as detrimental for you if it’s just a 6-8 wk cycle and you only plan to do one cycle initially? for reference, winstirol is what both me and him are looking at as it will provide strength and size gains that would be beneficial to my line of work and not as intense as say dbol or tren.

additionally just for some of you more experienced gentleman at what point did you feel it was appropriate and you had “earned” for lack of better word the right to look into PEDs to jumpstart your fitness career? I appreciate any and all feedback in advance and welcome any sort of general pharma advice as this would be my first potential cycle and I want to ensure I’m smart and healthy about it, and maybe even help determine if I’m even ready for this step. Thanks all!


#2

Great first post and welcome! First off some current pics of you and your present condition will help ALOT to give you more accurate advice. That being said as a first cycle I will recommend in 95% of the cases on a test only cycle. The thing with gear is that is that the response you will get both regarding gains and side effects can change quite a bit from person to person. and your first cycle should be just “testing the water” kind of thing so you can learn how your body is reacting to gear. Winstrol is not a “mellow-light” drug as p)people tend to think and some people who are sensitive it can get pretty bad sides from it(hair loss, joints pain, limp dick and some more fun stuff.)
As for your liver in 12 weeks period as long as you will take the require and smart liver protection/support you have very little to worry about especially in the size of the cycle we are talking about here. Take TUDCA at about 800-1000g a day and NAC as well at 600mg a day, and your liver should be just fine. So for the first cycle, I would go ideally with 500mg a week of test E and 10mg Nolvadex every day during the cycle. If you want a shorter cycle of 6-8 weeks, then test prop should be your choice and 100mg every other day same protocol for the Nolvadex. If kids are a future concern, I would also take 250iu HCG throughout the whole cycle and possibly a few more weeks after for your PCT combine with a bit a higher dosage of Nolvadex in the PCT. Also, add two bottles of Alpha male during PCT. This cycle will give you significant gains for a first cycle and will teach you how your body responds to juice.
As to how to know when is the time to start stepping to the dark side
It’s pretty simple. Be honest with yourself and see if you TRULY have all other fronts covered. Is your diet is 100% on point? Are you utilize intra workout nutrition? Is your training on point?(programming, volume,strength ) If you can honestly say yes to all of those and tried to manipulate them for a while(at least a year) and see that your progress is minimal or you’re stuck completely then it’s time to maybe think about starting. But if you still have progress to do without juice I would take advantage of it and only then start.
Let me know if you have any more questions and try to post on my forum to quicker response time.


#3

wow, so much knowledge in one post. thank you so much, this is exactly the kind of professional response I’ve come to expect from tnation contributors.

I appreciate the feedback and will seriously evaluate my training and diet. Part of it is also my job is extremely active, as in 40 days gone in a field environment so part of my concern is timing a cycle properly between those long times where I’m unable to train and eat properly. But everyone has got their challenges.


#4

I agree that test should be your first cycle at 500mgs EW. I don’t agree with running Nolva on your cycle though. That’s for PCT. Get some ADEX and HCG to run on cycle. Run those up to PCT but not with.


#5

Will a test cycle at my age really mess up my natural test production?


#6

Happy to help. how old are you? the “safe” age I usually recommend to start is no eariler then 22-23 but that’s ONLY if you have at least good 5 training years behind you and you are dialed with your nutrition/training/supplements no matter what age you are those 3 factors should be ON POINT and MAX before considering any kind of a cycle. as your natural test production. technically if you will do EVERYTHING PERFECT. and I mean shot timing, PCT, diet, and supplements then most chances you will back to 100%. out of my experience, the first cycle you will do is in 99% of the cases won’t be your last and as you will get older and will do more heavier cycles then your natural production will get hurt to at least some degree so it’s something to consider as you make your decision, but for that specific cycle we are talking about you should be just fine(most likely as I mention before everyone response different to use gear use and there is always the chance that you are one of the unlucky ones that their body just hates it… but it very unlikely)
hope that helps.


#7

that actually really helps so much. thanks alot, gave me alot of good information to help make my decision.