T Nation

23YO Libido Problems

Someone told me to repost this here, so I will copy/paste.

I dont speak english so plz bear with me.
4 years ago, at the age of 19 I used Testogan, dimetabol, dianabol like crazy, without help without knowledge. My hormones didnt get fucked up at that time and my testes and testosterone and libido were normal/high

1 year ago, my testes started shrinking, my libido was zero, i had semi problems of erection,
at that time the things that i did that could have done that was:
drinking alot of beer
eating desorder (alot of carbs little protein)
smoking TOO MUCH

I got tired of the problems so I injected HCG 2000 UI every 6 days for 5 times and my balls got BIG and hanging again, my libido back and mi dick BIG and BADASS. after 1 month, all got down again, i stopped drinking alot, stopped smoking, started drinking ZMA, REZ-V, TRIBEX, the only thing that worked fully was the HCG, i drank alot of OMEGA-3, ETC nothing seems to work, im tired of all

the last week of my omega-3 i started to drink ZMA with it and my balls got a little big and started hanging again but this week got fucked up again.

My endocrinologist made me some exams 2MONTHS AGO, the results are as follows

glucose mg/dl 89.40 [ ] normal range 60-100
total testosterone ng/dl 536. [
] normal range 262-1593
total estrogen pg/mL 80.6 [ * ] normal range 40-115
linfocitos K/uL 3.44 * normal range 0.6-3.4
white blood cells K/uL 9.24 [ ] normal range 4.8-10.8
red blood cells K/uL 4.83 [
] normal range 4.7-6

FSH muI/mL 1.69 [* ] normal range 0.95-11.95
LH mUI/mL 5.56 [ * ] normal range 1.14-8.75
T4 FREE ng/dL 0.98 [ * ] normal range 0.70-1.48
TSH mUI/mL 4.13 [ *] normal range 0.35-4.94

the doctor laughed and said everything was normal, i said god damn mi balls are 1/2 the normal size and dont hang, my libido is DOWN and not to mention erection problems

i should point out, i dont have any hair in my arms, chest, almost none facial air, I have what u call love handles, etc.

i dont smoke
i dont drink
i put my food in the microwave everyday, i sit in a chair at work almost 8 hours a day.

wtf please someone tell me, clomid, hcg, tamoxifen WHAT EVER YOU LIKE.

How old are you? 25
What country are you in? Dominican Republic
What did the endocrinologist say to you (other than just laughing)? nothing, that the problem was not hormonal
Did you tell him about prior steroid usage? yes

The thing is, if the problem isnt testes, then why when I used HCG the problem got solved for several weeks?
I asume that if the problem isnt hipogonadism, when I use hcg it woulndt have made any progress, but IT DID.

i dont have those values (free T)
Havent read alot about SERM tomorrow ill take some time to educate myself

@Detroitlionsbaby
in the graphics from the blood test, the estrogen is in the middle of normal range, something like this:

[*] 40-115 i got 80.6

the total testosterone was wayyyy in the bottom normal range:
[*________] 262-1593 i got 536

FSH was wayy in the bottom too, LH was normal, tiroxine T4 normal and TSH was very high normal range.

my balls right now are little, sticked to the body, i dont have full erections, i dont have morning erections, and i dont have libido. When i used HCG 1 year ago my balls, erection, and all got back on track but after few weeks of leaving it i got fcked up again.

i wish those numbers and all that im saying could give you a clue :frowning:

i should point out that for what i think, my testosterone is tooo little for my age (23) i think.

i bought clomid yesterday, thank god in my country we dont need prescription for almost any med, and one can buy steroids anywere without a problem :smiley:

another thing, if your meds in US are too close-minded, here in DR are worst, here we have doctors that studied 10 years, 20 years ago and never ever studied again. thats why my endo said that 536 total T is normal for my age, and my urologist said my testes are normal size :@ fck im pissed offf

I know that im talking alot and asking alot for help, but ppl that have been in my shoes knows how desperate one becomes to resolve this BIG problem

I have been investigating.
Here in DR they sell p&*^zer AROMASIN 30 tablets of 25mg for 125 dollars. A bit expensive for me but, for my health ill do whatever it takes.

To use 10mg of a pill i supose you cut the pill with a knife or something like that?

Tamoxifen they sell it here for 26 dollars 30 pills of 20mg each.

Someone said to use Aromasin and Tamoxifen and Ksam said use Arimidex, nothing else. 2 good examples, but I dont know which will work best. BBB or any other Guru here please help if u can.

So let me review myself.

FSH-------------- LOW-NORMAL.
LH--------------- NORMAL.
FREE T4---------- NORMAL
TSH-------------- HIGH NORMAL
TOTAL ESTROGEN— NORMAL
TT--------------- LOW NORMAL
lymphocyte------- HIGH HIGH OUTSIDE LINE.

LOW-NORMAL FSH maybe means not normal anterior pituitary function or maybe GnRH not normal, but LH somehow is Normal.

LOW-NORMAL TT maybe means LH would be low, but in my case is normal, SO maybe the problem is my testes. In another post KSman said something about testes firmness and hanging. My testes are, i think, firm enough but they arent as big as they were 1 year ago and certanly almost all day they are not hanging.

HIGH HIGH OUTSIDE LINE LYMPHOCYTE, is a symphtom of alot of stress, maybe that could be the reason.

I work, study, play karate 1 day a week and go to the gym 4 days a week, i have a gf, i sleep 7 hours and sit in a chair 8 hours a day in my work, and i put my lunch in a microwave every day of the week.

So my conclusion is: alot of stress, problem with my testes, or something else.
but to keep stress out someone said to drink lemonade without sugar every day, that would keep me alkaline enough to keep stress out.

I know alot of you are well experienced in the matter and can help me. I really need your help Tdudes.

lastly if you say i should use anastrozole like the guru KSman said I should, please send me a PM with a webpage where I can order it, maybe liquid type.

Thank you very much for taking the time to read all the posts.

If you order research chems from the USA, what problems are there with RC customs?

Throw out the clomid, bad choice. Tamoxifen is what you need.

How do your mind and body reach to major stress?

You eat much sea food? Is your salt iodized?

High lymphocyte: An increase in lymphocyte concentration is usually a sign of a viral infection.

Your testes responded to 2000iu hCG EOD for 6 days. That does show that the testes are LH responsive, but that dose of hCG was massively too much. Your LH is normal. Your T is normal. But normal LH should does not explain the state of your testes and scrotum.

Testing total estrogens is not helpful. You should have been tested for serum E2 [estradiol].

What was the state of your testes when the labs were done and what were you doing drug wise at the time of the labs and history of these things in the prior 2 months.

Height
Height of parents and brothers
Weight
Waist size
Where do you carry fat
Gyno
When did you start to grow taller
When did your finish growing
Growth was fast then stopped or slow and steady
History of stimulant use

What other drugs? OTC and RX

Stress: Chronic infection is hard on the adernals. Your DHEA is probably low. Take 50mg/ED. Later on if you recover normal testicular action DHEA may not be needed.

What was the state of your testes when the labs were done and what were you doing drug wise at the time of the labs and history of these things in the prior 2 months.

WHEN I TOOK THE LAB TEST MY TESTES WERE LITTLE AND STICKED TO THE BODY AND HARD.
I TOOK 1 MONTH BEFORE ZMA

Height 5’6’’
Height of parents and brothers father 5’5’’ mother and sister 5’3’’
Weight 152lbs
Waist size 32
Where do you carry fat…waist, abdominal, and legs mostly
Gyno a little
When did you start to grow taller 16
When did your finish growing 19
Growth was fast then stopped or slow and steady slow and steady
History of stimulant use
testogan, dimetabol, dianabol, REZV TRIBEX, ZMA, CLOMID HCG

What other drugs? OTC and RX
RIGHT NOW ORAL PREDNISONE FOR AN INFLAMATION IN MY EYE

NOTHING ELSE.

KSman, so, i should not use HCG, i should use aromasin/tamoxifen, or arimidex? for how long should i use it.

tomorrow i will be taking another blood test.

hCG 250-500iu will maintain normal testicular function in normal men. Large doses will only reduce your LH receptors.

dimetabol appears to be deca. I have seen deca only cycles break HPTA in a couple of young men. Your TT and LH shows a working HPTA.

One can be tempted to suggest a PCT to recover, but you do not need to recover. Your LH and TT numbers are not really so bad. But your testes indicate a very hard shutdown. You need the new labs to break this tie.

Your body and facial hair indicate that you were always a low T guy.

Please get tested for E2 not total estrogens.

Your height rules out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter's_syndrome

How much body/facial hair for your father and brothers?

when you say my height rules out klinefelter u mean i dont have it right? sorry for my english.

my father has almost none body hair, but facial hair yes he has.

when i have blood test i will report back to you.

ohhh and i buyed yesterday liquid anastrozole.

I went to the lab yesterday and made the blood test, I will get back to you when they send me the results.

Meanwhile, another thing, I have celulitis in my legs thats a way to know that maybe the problem is cortisol and/or E2.

When the problema started, I had a gf that dumped me, and i started drinking alot and smoking MENTHOL cigarrettes ALOT.

This week my testes have gone wild, one day they are haging alot, the other day they are sticked to the body, and now im seeing i have been gettin celulitis back.

Thats a sign that they are responding to LH but when they do T it transforms to Estrogen and therefore start to shrink, only to get back to hang again 1 day later.

without seeing the blood test, i rest almost assured the problem is Estradiol/Cortisol, and the solution is AI.

Yet another thing i have been reading
I may have been exposed alot to BPA in recent years because I carry my lunch everyday of the week in Tupperware-like plastics to my work.
my testes problems started like 5 months after starting to carry my food in tupperware.
I will have my food packed in normal dishes to work from now on.

If the TupperWare is marked HDPE or PP is probably does not have that chemical.

Free T cannot be made in my country and costs like 120 dollars to send it from my lab to US, so i didnt test it, I will test it when i have more money.

E2 ESTRADIOL 31.70 [*] 0-56
FSH 2.69 [] 0.95-11.95
LH 6.69 [
] 1.14-8.75
T4 FREE 1.08 [*] 0.70-1.48
TSH 2.455 [*] 0.35-4.94
GLUCOSE 63.40 [*__] 60-100

elevated LH,
low FSH
normal t4 and tsh
and “normal” estradiol.

What do you think about that KSman?

Note: as i said im taking prednisone, thats a corticosteroid for an inflamation i have in my left eye area. my white cells are 19 where top range is 10 thats because of the inflamation I supose. I dont know if any of those values are changed by the corticosteroid. I didnt test my cortisol because my doc said it would be changed by prednisone.

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 264 [*__] 262-1593

OMFG

someone please comment, those test were from 2 days ago…

could the high hcg doses posibly damage my lh receptors in my testes?
if the answer is yes, is it reversible?
what stuff apart from a trt should i use.

Your E2 is too high. Suggest 0.5mg anastrozole per week in EOD dosing.

You are making LH and your T is low. So your testes are not very LH responsive. This problem is not new and changes between one state of low and another are not important. You did demonstrate that high amounts of hCG could increase testicular output, but that is not a solution.

Your LH indicates that your HPTA is not deeply repressed. If you reduce E2, your LH should increase somewhat. But not enough. Lower E2 would make you feel better.

Injected testosterone ester [cypionate, ethanate] is your least cost TRT. You will need to inject 250iu hCG EOD to keep your testes functional. At some point you could have your ejaculate examined under a microscope to evaluate your fertility.

If you keep your E2 lower and do TRT, FT will probably be OK. For your age, TRT TT should be close to 1000.

TRT should be 100mg/week test ester, 250iu hCG SC EOD and 1.0mg anastrozole per week.

Prednisone should not be used long term, it is catabolic and can damage bone and connective tissue when used long term. Your WBC indicates a chronic infection. What courses of antibiotic have you taken? Parasites are also possible.

I was afraid of hearing the word TRT. Isnt that a lifetime therapy?
Could I have kids in the future? How costly is it?

I just wanted to have normal endo testosterone.

Well, its way better then where you are now and what you ‘just wanted’ seems to be out of reach.

With hCG your fertility is protected.

For life? Yes. QOL for life is a good thing.

I know, not want you wanted to hear. More to learn and understand.

Read:

Note that while this is a really good first read, it is not very good with injections or anastrozole. Read the protocol for injections sticky to fill in the gaps.

I have seem a number of guys in your situation. Some have brittle HPTA’s. At least you know know that you can make things better and know how to do that or at least know what road to travel.

Thank you KSman for all your attention to my post.
Tomorrow im gonna have surgery in the base bone of the eye. 2 weeks later gonna stop drinking Meticorten, and then im gonna stop by my new endo that said the corticosteroid is modifying values like Testosterone.
Then im gonna print out some TRT docs and show em to her.

im not afraid of TRT, im just afraid of not having kids and afraid of the costs of the therapy

i have another 2 questions KSman

2 months before the first symptoms of low testosterone happened (abdominal body fat, legs body fat, low back body fat, no libido) (august2007) I had Dengue feber, i lost 10 pounds, but after that i started the gym again and used a VPX zero impact MRP protein.
It is said it has albumen egg protein, would it be a cause of the problems? or maybe dengue would be a cause?