T Nation

23 YO - On 120mg/wk Cyp for 6 Months

All of that is from a urine test? If so we are blind.

Joint problems new? Might be an anastrozole over-responder. Stop for 5-6 days and resume at 1/4th dosing. You will need to use a liquid product or make one with vodka.

Lab results depend on dose, injection routine and lab timing.

[quote]KSman wrote:
All of that is from a urine test? If so we are blind.

Joint problems new? Might be an anastrozole over-responder. Stop for 5-6 days and resume at 1/4th dosing. You will need to use a liquid product or make one with vodka.

Lab results depend on dose, injection routine and lab timing.

[/quote]

yes, this lab was all from a 24 hour urine sample

I will have a blood test in about 4 weeks, should I cut out anastrazole completely til then or 1/4 the dosage(which would be ~.06mg e3d)

Why did you start arimidex in the first place? Your estrogens are very low and this can cause all kinds of health problems for you in future.

AIs such as arimidex can by themselves cause suppressed libido even if your E2 levels look good on paper. You can only measure serum E2, which gives only an average that may look good because, for example, your fat tissue may be producing lots of E2 even while the AI may be suppressing E2 too much in your brain (leading to low libido) and bones.

I was on TRT for a couple of years with “optimal” E2 using arimidex. My libido was terrible. Currently I am on 100 mg T per week without an AI and my libido is good even though my ultrasensitive E2 is quite high, close to the top of the range at 24 (range < 29).

Many guys on TRT do not need arimidex at all. If I were you, I would stop arimidex completely for about six weeks and see if you feel better. Unless you are very low (as you are) or very high, tests are not very helpful, since there is no optimal E2 (according to Drs. Crisler and Mariano) since everybody functions best at different levels, so how you feel is more important than what the tests say.

[quote]seekonk wrote:
Why did you start arimidex in the first place? Your estrogens are very low and this can cause all kinds of health problems for you in future.

AIs such as arimidex can by themselves cause suppressed libido even if your E2 levels look good on paper. You can only measure serum E2, which gives only an average that may look good because, for example, your fat tissue may be producing lots of E2 even while the AI may be suppressing E2 too much in your brain (leading to low libido) and bones.

I was on TRT for a couple of years with “optimal” E2 using arimidex. My libido was terrible. Currently I am on 100 mg T per week without an AI and my libido is good even though my ultrasensitive E2 is quite high, close to the top of the range at 24 (range < 29).

Many guys on TRT do not need arimidex at all. If I were you, I would stop arimidex completely for about six weeks and see if you feel better. Unless you are very low (as you are) or very high, tests are not very helpful, since there is no optimal E2 (according to Drs. Crisler and Mariano) since everybody functions best at different levels, so how you feel is more important than what the tests say.
[/quote]

I had an e2 level of 51 a couple months after starting 120mg test cyp/ week

i then was prescribed .5mg eod

e2 went to less than 1

i cut e2 down to .5 e4d

e2 went to about 5

last adjustment was .25 e3d which yielded latest results

I can’t recall for sure but when I tested at 51 it may have been the morning after a weekend of heavy drinking, so I don’t know how much of an impact that had on the test

seekonk,

Your experience is not representative of a majority of guys. In my case E2=37–>22 resolved mood problems while on TRT and made me act like a port star. You should be making statements that more than your personal experience. Now you feel great while on TRT without an AI and you have E2=24. That is not typical and also happens to be near what many have been recommending as a target.

“Many guys on TRT do not need arimidex at all.” does not mean most, only an arbitrary number of guys. Is there any hard data?

I understand the concern about T–>E2 being too low in the brain. Same with high T–>E2 from high doses of hCG or SERMs. This is where some intelligence is needed. We do see some docs doing mindless things with AI at times.

So you feel that no one should be using an AI and they would feel better off?

Gary, yes, no AI to allow levels to drop over two half lives, then new dose.

you think if i scrap the ai all together til my next lab(4-5 weeks) my estrogen will skyrocket?

[quote]KSman wrote:
seekonk,

Your experience is not representative of a majority of guys. In my case E2=37–>22 resolved mood problems while on TRT and made me act like a port star. You should be making statements that more than your personal experience. Now you feel great while on TRT without an AI and you have E2=24. That is not typical and also happens to be near what many have been recommending as a target.[/quote]

It’s a different test (the ultrasensitive with range <29) that cannot be compared number-for-number with the usual E2 test, and at 24 I am close to the top of the range and feel better than before, whereas the average for this test is closer to about 10-15.

okay i’ve been off AI’s completely for about two weeks, going to test within a week or so

my question is about gyno

my nipples to not feel glandular or increased in size but more towards the middle of my chest I feel a couple of hard lumps, any idea what this might be? is this gyno?

latest labs

been running 140mg(70mg 2x/week)
250 ius hcg day before each shot

no AI

thing that stands out is this is the first lab i had where my shbg hasnt been outside of the range on the low end

I’ve tried caber before to lower prolactin, but when i did .5 twice a week it tanked my prolactin to less than 1

libido still sucks

Testosterone Serum 636ng/dl (348-1197)

Testosterone F+W 262(40-250)HIGH

DHEA-Sulfate 394(211-492)

Prolactin 13.6(4-15.2)

Vitamin D 67(30-100)

SHBG 17.9(16.5-55.9)

Estradiol, sensitive 28(3-70)

[quote]Gary888 wrote:
latest labs

been running 140mg(70mg 2x/week)
250 ius hcg day before each shot

no AI

thing that stands out is this is the first lab i had where my shbg hasnt been outside of the range on the low end

I’ve tried caber before to lower prolactin, but when i did .5 twice a week it tanked my prolactin to less than 1

libido still sucks

Testosterone Serum 636ng/dl (348-1197)

Testosterone F+W 262(40-250)HIGH

DHEA-Sulfate 394(211-492)

Prolactin 13.6(4-15.2)

Vitamin D 67(30-100)

SHBG 17.9(16.5-55.9)

Estradiol, sensitive 28(3-70)[/quote]

try bromo, it is weaker than caber.

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]Gary888 wrote:
latest labs

been running 140mg(70mg 2x/week)
250 ius hcg day before each shot

no AI

thing that stands out is this is the first lab i had where my shbg hasnt been outside of the range on the low end

I’ve tried caber before to lower prolactin, but when i did .5 twice a week it tanked my prolactin to less than 1

libido still sucks

Testosterone Serum 636ng/dl (348-1197)

Testosterone F+W 262(40-250)HIGH

DHEA-Sulfate 394(211-492)

Prolactin 13.6(4-15.2)

Vitamin D 67(30-100)

SHBG 17.9(16.5-55.9)

Estradiol, sensitive 28(3-70)[/quote]

try bromo, it is weaker than caber.
[/quote]

Or don’t do caber at .5 twice a week. just once is ok.
it has a very long half life.

im going to take .125 caber twice a week and see how that goes

as far as anastrazole dosage goes, my e2 is 28 right now with nothing, and when i was on .25 e4d i was below 10

im not sure about the halflife, but cutting the 1mg tab into 1/8s isnt reliable, so i was wondering if i went to .25 e6d or e7d if that would be okay or it would send me on a weekly roller coaster, my doc recommended .25 on each day of my cyp shots, that would essentially be the same as e4d which brought my e2 way down but my dosing was never synchronized to my shots

thoughts?

[quote]KSman wrote:
All of that is from a urine test? If so we are blind.
[/quote]
Can I say “Crisler” on this board? Sounds like he really likes 24-hour urine tests for TRT.