23 YO: 101 Total Test and 11 Free Test

I asked to get bloodwork done because of what I figured to be estrogen related symptoms. I know this from a couple of symptoms…Gyno, low sex drive, store abdominal fat extremely easily, hard time gaining muscle, depression, apathy, bloat/water retention, horrible pump…

I had gyno surgery and low and behold my gyno has since returned less than a year later, because you can take out the majority of the gland but I have such a hormonal imbalance that I had a feeling it would come back. I will be going back to my doctor in December to have it removed again. Also, when I try to put on muscle or weight, my weight will stay the same but my stomach will get softer and gain fat yet the rest of my body will stay the same size.

I got my results back today (only over the phone) and Total test was 101 and free test was 11…this is very odd considering in 2009 my total test was 500+ and in 2008 it was 400+…and yet in 09 and 08 my estradiol was much higher than it is now. Somehow, my estradiol was in range and I am just completely lost as to what the issue is. Any ideas?

Please post the lab ranges. What was your E2 at now? “In range” can be very misleading.

I think estradiol was only a 14 which is just completely mind-boggling…in the previous tests it was 40+…I don’t currently have the ranges as they just called today and discussed the blood work, I don’t have them at the moment.

The ratio is bad, you are estrogen dominant. As the absolute E2 levels are not elevated, you should be looking at prolactin as a possible gyno cause and HPTA depressant.

Age?
Any reduction is peripheral vision?

Hypothyroidism has many symptoms in common with low T, including abdominal fat. Test TSH, fT3, fT4

Yes, some guys have problems with both.

Read the stickies on lab work. Do other things to support you metabolism: fish oil, 4000-6000oi vit-D3, high potency B vit complex with trace elements, anti-oxidants good diet etc.

[quote]KSman wrote:
The ratio is bad, you are estrogen dominant. As the absolute E2 levels are not elevated, you should be looking at prolactin as a possible gyno cause and HPTA depressant.

Age?
Any reduction is peripheral vision?

Hypothyroidism has many symptoms in common with low T, including abdominal fat. Test TSH, fT3, fT4

Yes, some guys have problems with both.

Read the stickies on lab work. Do other things to support you metabolism: fish oil, 4000-6000oi vit-D3, high potency B vit complex with trace elements, anti-oxidants good diet etc.[/quote]

I am currently 23 years old, peripheral vision is fine…They did a full thyroid panel and said there were no issues in that department. They will be calling me again today to make an appointment so I will ask to have the full results of the blood work sent to me, if they haven’t done so already. I wonder if they checked prolactin I will have to ask.

I don’t understand how my test could have dropped from 500+ to 100 in less than 2 years. I also can’t understand how my gyno came back even though that is very rare after surgery!!! I feel like absolute shit and have for some time now.

At your age: you need to get LH/FSH results before starting TRT or taking a SERM or hCG. If LH/FSH are low, a MRI can check for a pituitary adinoma. Such a problem can lower gonadotrophins and/or increase prolactin.

If LH/FSH are mid range or high, your testes are the problem.

Get an retain copies of all labs. You cannot depend on doctors and need to manage your own health care.

Any changes to your testes or aches?

Have you lost hair on your lower legs?

Changes to skin, hair or nails [brittle]? Feel cold easily? Checked waking body temps?

Had a fever where your testes ached?

Exposure to chemicals or fire retardant clothing?

What Rx or OTC drugs?

Was the onset of all of these problems preceded by a major blow to the head or whiplash?

Describe body and facial hair.

Age=23
height=
Waist=

[quote]johnmurray2 wrote:
They did a full thyroid panel and said there were no issues in that department. [/quote]

Bad - never accept what the doctor says. Never go by the lab ranges listed. They are mostly wrong (or at least include unhealthy sick and dying people in those “normal” ranges)

[quote]johnmurray2 wrote:
I will ask to have the full results of the blood work sent to me, if they haven’t done so already. I wonder if they checked prolactin I will have to ask.
[/quote]

GREAT!!! ask for a fax if you can receive one. A lot quicker then the mail.

post your results when you get them in your hands.

[quote]KSman wrote:
At your age: you need to get LH/FSH results before starting TRT or taking a SERM or hCG. If LH/FSH are low, a MRI can check for a pituitary adinoma. Such a problem can lower gonadotrophins and/or increase prolactin.

If LH/FSH are mid range or high, your testes are the problem.

Get an retain copies of all labs. You cannot depend on doctors and need to manage your own health care.

Any changes to your testes or aches?
Nope not at all.

Have you lost hair on your lower legs?
No, hair has remained the same.

Changes to skin, hair or nails [brittle]? Feel cold easily? Checked waking body temps?
I’m rarely cold, I usually keep my apartment quite cold. Skin, hair, and nails all have been normal. I have not checked waking body temps however.

Had a fever where your testes ached?
Have not had a fever for a long time and no aches in my testes.

Exposure to chemicals or fire retardant clothing?
Nope.

What Rx or OTC drugs?
Medrol Dose pack, Flexeril, Advil…rarely drink, maybe once every 2-3 months. Do smoke weed however.

Was the onset of all of these problems preceded by a major blow to the head or whiplash?
No.

Describe body and facial hair.
Not very hairy, can’t really grow a full beard, no chest or back hair, light hair on arms, full head of hair on my head, very thick and wavy.

Age=23
height= 6’1
Waist= 34-35…waist was 32 and has gone to 34/35 without gaining any weight

[quote]PureChance wrote:

[quote]johnmurray2 wrote:
They did a full thyroid panel and said there were no issues in that department. [/quote]

Bad - never accept what the doctor says. Never go by the lab ranges listed. They are mostly wrong (or at least include unhealthy sick and dying people in those “normal” ranges)

[quote]johnmurray2 wrote:
I will ask to have the full results of the blood work sent to me, if they haven’t done so already. I wonder if they checked prolactin I will have to ask.
[/quote]

GREAT!!! ask for a fax if you can receive one. A lot quicker then the mail.

post your results when you get them in your hands.[/quote]

Yeah, they should be calling me today and I will make sure I can get a copy of these numbers so I can post them here and get some feedback.

The increased waist size and no weight change means muscle loss [wasting]. That happened to me. With TRT, my waist size decreased and fat loss occurred with no change of weight… muscle gain. Hopefully that will be your story.

[quote]KSman wrote:
The increased waist size and no weight change means muscle loss [wasting]. That happened to me. With TRT, my waist size decreased and fat loss occurred with no change of weight… muscle gain. Hopefully that will be your story.

[/quote]

Yeah, my workouts have been horrible lately, bad pumps, lack of energy…just overall feeling shitty in and out of the gym. I’m just really hesitant to begin TRT (if it’s even deemed necessary) because of my age. Sadly, I’m just not seeing many other alternatives.

Ok, so as of right now I set up an appointment on monday the 8th. I also asked them to mail me my blood work today. However, after the last call I had with them they seemed to be blaming it on me taking aas previously. The thing is my last cycle ended almost 5 months ago, it was a low dose of test (300mg/week and adex during) and nolva for PCT. From what I understand the appt will be $300, none of which my insurance will cover.

I’m debating just trying to handle this on my own…maybe I will run an HcG protocol and get blood work done during and after. Does anyone have any ideas? Maybe an HcG protocol that they have used that has worked?

You can do labs here. Get the LEF membership first.

Male panel:

LH/FSH:

[quote]KSman wrote:
You can do labs here. Get the LEF membership first.

Male panel:

LH/FSH:

[/quote]

I have no problem getting scripts for blood work so that won’t be a problem, but thank you for those links. I’m having a hard time seeing everything on my iphone, is that just a test or something that will also give recommendations from a physician?

Also, do you have any recommendations or any links to some protocols that may help? Should I try to run another PCT…I’m thinking maybe I should try HcG as I never have used it before.

Use hCG 250iu SC EOD to restore/recover the testes. This may take time. Note size and firmness.
Add 0.5 mg/week anastrozole from the start.
Switch to Nolvadex, 10mg ED might be enough and the top end of the HPTA should become active.
Taper off of Nolvadex, keep on the anastrozole to avoid rebound.
HPTA then takes over for better or worse.

If you do not feel benefits of higher T with hCG, that implies that your testes are LH resistant. Prior lab work would settle that issue in advance.

Large hCG doses can down regulate LH receptors… a disaster. High dose SERMs can create high LH levels that might have the same negative effects.

If you had lab work and IF DHEA-S was low, you would add DHEA.

If you recover, you really need to assume that gear is a threat to your HPTA.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Use hCG 250iu SC EOD to restore/recover the testes. This may take time. Note size and firmness.
Add 0.5 mg/week anastrozole from the start.
Switch to Nolvadex, 10mg ED might be enough and the top end of the HPTA should become active.
Taper off of Nolvadex, keep on the anastrozole to avoid rebound.
HPTA then takes over for better or worse.

If you do not feel benefits of higher T with hCG, that implies that your testes are LH resistant. Prior lab work would settle that issue in advance.

Large hCG doses can down regulate LH receptors… a disaster. High dose SERMs can create high LH levels that might have the same negative effects.

If you had lab work and IF DHEA-S was low, you would add DHEA.

If you recover, you really need to assume that gear is a threat to your HPTA.
[/quote]

Ok I will ask to have my blood work faxed to me tomorrow so I can post all of the numbers on here and figure some stuff out before I begin any protocol. I really appreciate all of your help thus far, thank you very much.

[quote]johnmurray2 wrote:
However, after the last call I had with them they seemed to be blaming it on me taking aas previously. The thing is my last cycle ended almost 5 months ago, it was a low dose of test (300mg/week and adex during) and nolva for PCT. [/quote]

You didn’t mention that you are a previous AAS user until your 6th or 7th post? That’s a little daft, don’t you think? Maybe this is why your test was normal in 2008 and 2009, but is low now…

Your problem probably lies with whateve shitty PCT you did.

I could be wrong, but I would think you just need a kick start to your HPTA. Clomid perhaps?

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]johnmurray2 wrote:
However, after the last call I had with them they seemed to be blaming it on me taking aas previously. The thing is my last cycle ended almost 5 months ago, it was a low dose of test (300mg/week and adex during) and nolva for PCT. [/quote]

You didn’t mention that you are a previous AAS user until your 6th or 7th post? That’s a little daft, don’t you think? Maybe this is why your test was normal in 2008 and 2009, but is low now…

Your problem probably lies with whateve shitty PCT you did.

I could be wrong, but I would think you just need a kick start to your HPTA. Clomid perhaps?
[/quote]

I thought I mentioned it in my first post, I posted a similar thread in the Steroids section and included it in the first post so I’m not trying to hide anything. For PCT I ran a relatively standard 40/40/20/20 Nolvadex protocol.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Use hCG 250iu SC EOD to restore/recover the testes. This may take time. Note size and firmness.
Add 0.5 mg/week anastrozole from the start.
Switch to Nolvadex, 10mg ED might be enough and the top end of the HPTA should become active.
Taper off of Nolvadex, keep on the anastrozole to avoid rebound.
HPTA then takes over for better or worse.

If you do not feel benefits of higher T with hCG, that implies that your testes are LH resistant. Prior lab work would settle that issue in advance.

Large hCG doses can down regulate LH receptors… a disaster. High dose SERMs can create high LH levels that might have the same negative effects.

If you had lab work and IF DHEA-S was low, you would add DHEA.

If you recover, you really need to assume that gear is a threat to your HPTA.
[/quote]

KSman,

Here are the numbers from the bloodwork

TSH: 1.86 (RANGE 0.40-4.50)
T4, FREE: 1.2 (RANGE 0.8-1.8)
T3, FREE: 3.2 (RANGE 2.3-4.2)
DHEA: 156 (RANGE 110-510)

FSH: 2.3 (RANGE 1.6-8.0)
LH: 2.6 (RANGE 1.5-9.3)
IGF-1: 342 (RANGE 121-423)

Cortisol: 6.0 (RANGE 4.0-22.0)
PREGNENOLONE: 122 (RANGE 13-208)

Total Test: 101 (Range 250-1100)
Free % Test: 1.74 (Range 1.50-2.20)
Free Test: 19 (Range 35-155)

Test was taking around 12:30

[quote]KSman wrote:
Use hCG 250iu SC EOD to restore/recover the testes. This may take time. Note size and firmness.
Add 0.5 mg/week anastrozole from the start.
Switch to Nolvadex, 10mg ED might be enough and the top end of the HPTA should become active.
Taper off of Nolvadex, keep on the anastrozole to avoid rebound.
HPTA then takes over for better or worse.

If you do not feel benefits of higher T with hCG, that implies that your testes are LH resistant. Prior lab work would settle that issue in advance.

Large hCG doses can down regulate LH receptors… a disaster. High dose SERMs can create high LH levels that might have the same negative effects.

If you had lab work and IF DHEA-S was low, you would add DHEA.

If you recover, you really need to assume that gear is a threat to your HPTA.
[/quote]

KSman, Here are my bloodwork numbers

Here are the numbers from the bloodwork

TSH: 1.86 (RANGE 0.40-4.50)
T4, FREE: 1.2 (RANGE 0.8-1.8)
T3, FREE: 3.2 (RANGE 2.3-4.2)
DHEA: 156 (RANGE 110-510)

FSH: 2.3 (RANGE 1.6-8.0)
LH: 2.6 (RANGE 1.5-9.3)
IGF-1: 342 (RANGE 121-423)

Cortisol: 6.0 (RANGE 4.0-22.0)
PREGNENOLONE: 122 (RANGE 13-208)

Total Test: 101 (Range 250-1100)
Free % Test: 1.74 (Range 1.50-2.20)
Free Test: 19 (Range 35-155)
Estrafiol: 14 No range given