T Nation

22 YO Male, Low T, Low Sex Drive


#1

Hi all, I've noticed in the last couple years my sex drive has gone way down. After being fed up with it, I got my T tested and turns out it was low. After a couple docs, I found one that would give me Clomid which it seemed like that would be a good place to start. Thinking about it now though, I would've like the doc to test a full array of stuff instead of T and a couple other things before getting me started on any treatment. Been taking Clomid at 25mg EOD for almost 6 months, am currently tapering off at 12.5mg EOD. Then I'm going to see what my T falls down to. I plan on getting a lot more tests done this time around, potentially finding another doc in the process.

September 2014:
These were with Labcorp

TT: 488 (348-1197)
FT: 9.0 (9.3-26.5)
FSH: 3.7 (1.5-12.4)
LH: 3.1 (1.7-8.6)
HDL: 74 (23-92)
cLDL: 114 (<100)
Chol: 197 (<200)
Trig: 43 (<150)
TSH: 3.11 (0.50-6.00)

Also had blood panel but nothing out of the ordinary there. FreeT is low and Total Testosterone is on the low end of the spectrum. Also FSH and LH are on low end of the spectrum. Was referred to a doc who had same tests done for some reason.

October 2014:
These were with OHSU

SHBG: 32 (11-80)
FT: 75 (47-244)
TT: 402 (300-1080)
E2: 20 (<=47)

Doc prescribed me Clomid and put me on my way. He said to take 50mg ED, but I didn't because I had done a lot of research on this website and others. I started with 25mg EOD in the middle of October. I didn't even tell the doc about the dosage I was taking.

November 2014:
Been taking 25mg Clomid EOD for a month at this point. These were with Labcorp.

LH: 5.6 (1.7-8.6)
TT: 1252 (348-1197)
FT 29.4 (9.3-26.5)
E2: 34 (7.6-42.6)
FSH: 4.0 (1.5-12.4)

My total and free testosterone were considered high at this point. I was feeling maybe a little better, but my sex drive wasn't there like I would have expected it to be. I talked to doc about prescribing aromasin to bring down E2 a little, and he said no because it wasn't "high." I think it would have been good to bring it down a little. I also never told him I was only taking 25mg EOD which is funny because after we got these tests back, he said to cut the dose down by 50mg in a week lol. Kind of funny to me since I got the same effect with the lower dose. At this point, I lowered my dose to 12.5mg EOD because less is more.

Feb 2015:
After 4 months of Clomid, got more tests with Labcorp

TT: 641 (348-1197)
FT 13.5 (9.3-26.5)
E2: 17.6 (7.6-42.6)
fT3: 2.1 (2.0-4.4)
fT4: 0.81 (0.75-1.54)

Finally got my thyroid tested after figuring out that my body temps were about 1 degree cooler than they should be. A couple months before this, I ordered Iodine and did a refeed of Iodine to where I took 0.75g at 25mg a day as directed in the Thyroid sticky. I figured I'd do it and my thyroid would be good. I guess I was wrong since my body temps are about 1 degree cooler than where they should be. It seems my fT3 and fT4 are on the low side of the range, not really "optimal" I would say. My E2 dropped with my dose of Clomid being cut in half by 2 back in November.

If you look at the ratio of taking 25mg Clomid EOD to 12.5mg EOD, my Total Testosterone, Free Testosterone, and Estradiol all cut in half basically.

TT: 1252 in October -> 641 in February
FT: 29.4 in October -> 13.5 in February
E2: 34 in October -> 17.6 in February

I thought that was kind of interesting. So as of right now, I am tapering off of Clomid at 12.5mg EOD. Plan on doing this for another two weeks. Then I'm going to wait a couple weeks to have everything tested again.

Tests I plan on getting: FT, TT, Vitamin D, E2, LH, FSH, Pregnenolone, DHEA-S, Zinc, Magnesium, Cortisol test somehow, Selenium, DHT?, and HbA1c.

I'm going to get more blood tests this time around to get a bigger picture. Then I want to find a doc that will actually treat me.

supplements I take:
protein powder, zinc arginate at 45mg ED, magnesium at 400mg ED, Vitamin D at 4000IU ED, pre workouts, i use iodized salt everyday for rice.

I eat really well, I barely ever go out drinking because I like to be healthy. 5'9, 190lbs. Probably 11-12% bodyfat. Resistance train: 3 days on 1 day off. HIIT cardio once a week. College student, 22 years old. Not much stress in my life, I don't really get stressed. My macros for a typical day are 230g protein, 100g fat, 270g carb. Trying to lose a little weight right now.

That's my story. Any input would be awesome


#2

You certainly have gained a good understanding and are approaching this right.

Can you post your waking and afternoon body temps?

fT3 and fT4 are a long way shy of mid-range and TSH was high. Perhaps your thyroid function is holding your HPTA down.

What was your long term intake of iodized salt?

Waist size?

Is your diet low fat to an extreme?
Do you eat red meat?
Do you get any EFA’s?


#3

Thank you, I’ve really been trying to be more informed about my health because it seems like the doctors don’t care as much as I do. Or they don’t have the time. But either way.

Long term iodized salt intake was probably low for a while. But I have been taking a multi-vitamin for 2+ years that has 150mcg of Iodine in it. Then when I found out I had low T, I started taking in more Iodized salt and I did that refeed of Iodine a few months back. I recently stopped taking the multi-vitamin though, but have been using Iodized salt everyday.

Waist size is right around 33.

And my fat for an average day is 100g, along with 220g protein and 270g carb. I take a total of 3.6g EPA and DHA everyday. I don’t eat red meat very often, but I do get plenty of saturated fats in my diet through coconut oil.


#4

So fats, EFA’s and iodine seem good. You have a trim build.

Note that selenium is needed to avoid free radical generation in thyroid tissue as thyroid hormones are produced. The free radicals can damage thyroid tissue and the immune system can have an autoimmune response and then its a mess. Was there selenium in those vitamins that you were taking? Did you have known selenium intake during your iodine replenishment?

Get body temps and we can move forward from there.


#5

Your HDL is outstanding. Can you tell me more about your diet? What foods specifically, and especially fats. Thanks.

Sorry, no input since you already have KSMAN in your thread.


#6

Yeah there was 200mcg Selenium in them. And while I was doing the Iodine replenishment, I was taking a total of 400mg Selenium per day. I might consider buying a multivitamin again, but I realized the one that I was taking did not have quality forms of each multivitamin; like Zinc Oxide, Magnesium Oxide, etc…It seems like it is better to buy separate vitamins and take them at the correct doses.

So I will start taking 200mcg Selenium a day now that I know I need more of it. I think I need a copper supplement as well since I’m taking 45mg of Zinc a day.

And my diet consists of: Eggs, coconut oil, Fish oil, rice, protein powder, peanut butter, other various things. I do try eat well, because I can control that part of the equation as far as health goes. Now I just need to figure out this low T, low libido thing.

I will take body temps the next 3 days and post them up. Thanks for the input!


#7

Thanks.

I would also add prolactin to your next lab test. High prolactin can significantly reduce libido and is suppressing to HPTA. If it comes back normal you can at least rule it out.


#8

Oh yeah, I forgot I had that tested already a few months ago. It came back normal so I didn’t think to post it. But thanks for the input!


#9

My temperatures for 3 days were:
morning: 96.6
afternoon: 97.6

morning: 96.9
afternoon: 97.8

morning: 96.8
afternoon: 97.8

So my body temps are low. This may or may not indicate thyroid issues. Should I go ahead and get T3 and T4 tested even though i already have my test results for fT3 and fT4. I know fT3 and fT4 are more important which is why I got them tested.


#10

Alright folks I went in for blood tests today. I got the following: TT, FT, E2, LH, FSH, DHEA-S, DHT, and Pregnenolone. I wasn’t sure which pregnenolone test to go with so we went with “Pregnenolone, MS.” I hope that is the right one. Should have tests back by Friday. I’ve been off Clomid for a month now. My sex drive isn’t really there, although I do have morning wood more often which is nice. I really want to get a 24 hour cortisol saliva test, but my insurance doesn’t cover naturopaths or homeopaths and it seems like they are the ones who get those tests done. I wake up in night sweats probably 2 times a week. I’m not sure why this is, but I do think it has to do with my cortisol.


#11

Got my lab tests back:
TT: 397 Range: 348 - 1197
FT: 9.6 Range: 9.3 - 26.5
DHEA-S: 301.5 Range: 164.3 - 530.5
LH: 7.9 Range: 1.7 - 8.6
FSH: 4.0 Range: 1.5 - 12.4
E2: 6.3 Range: 7.6 - 42.6

Not shocked my TT and FT are back down to where they were pre Clomid. I am curious as to why my LH is at the high end of the range but my Testosterone is low. This means I am primary unfortunately.

My Estradiol is extremely low which is the biggest red flag to me right now. When I was on Clomid, my Estradiol stayed somewhat under control so maybe my body is compensating for some ratio of TT:E2. I have no idea. Could it be my Zinc supplementation? I dropped the dose after getting off the Clomid, but still taking 50mg a day. I’ve also been taking L-Carnitine to assist with my diet. Not sure if that is affecting my E2 or not. This hormone thing is too complicated.

Lastly, has there been any studies on long term Nolvadex use? Since Clomid seemed to work well while I was on it, could I take Nolvadex long term? Just thinking out loud. I would like to bring it up to my doctor again if it would make sense. Thanks! Sorry for the wall of text. I just want to get everything out.


#12

When on clomid, your results were not spectacular. SERMs increase LH, but if you are somewhat primary, not much will happen.

Are there any vascular abnormalities in your testes? If so, surgery can help.

E2 is odd. So we assume that SHBG is also low:

How was life with clomid?


#13

My testes feel about the same as they always have. No size difference, no pain. Not up in my stomach either, just kind of hanging there.

I never really felt any sex drive with Clomid. I do recall better recovery from my workouts, but that is about it.


#14

Then no reason to expect more from Nolvadex. Is TRT an option for you?


#15

By option, what do you mean? I mean yeah I think my doctor would put me on it once he sees the results. But do I want to? I’m not sure. I suppose I could try it and if I don’t like it, I could go off it. If I do decide to do it, could I just freeze some sperm? I know I can take HCG, but it seems some doctors won’t prescribe that so easily. I’ll be sure to ask my doctor though.

I do want my sex drive to be back though, so it seems TRT may be the best choice to fix that.


#16

Last two tests are in:
DHT: 28 Range: 30 - 85
Pregnenolone: 123 Range: 53-357

So I have low DHT also. I guess this is no surprise since T->DHT. But it’s surprising because I have absolutely no problem growing hair, at least on my face. I think I am losing my hair on my head though. So if I did TRT, this will bring up my DHT?

While reading about DHT, it recommends getting Androstenedine tested because these two are correlated. Is this necessary?


#17

I’ve read that nolvadex sensitizes your pituitary to GnRH so it may be beneficial if you plan on taking it for a short-while and tapering off it.


#18

Hey folks, I haven’t updated in a while, but that’s because I kind of lost motivation with my doctor. But good news!

I have started TRT at 100mg a week in two divided doses. I plan to supplement with 100mg Zinc a day to combat any estrogens, I have read that Zinc is really good as an aromatase inhibitor. I’m hoping that with my dose, I won’t need an AI. I have HCG on standby, just to see if I feel a good difference with and without it.

Took my first dose yesterday so I’m thinking I’ll start feeling the effects tomorrow. Let me know what you think!


#19

This is my experience so far…

I’ve been taking 50mg Test Cyp E3D with 1cc 1/2" vials into the quad. I take 100mg Zinc Picolinate every night to combat aromatization. I didn’t feel the need for Arimidex when I can just take more Zinc. I also added 8mg copper to my diet to combat any Zinc toxicity. I have HCG, just haven’t used it yet.

-Sleep isn’t that much better
-Seems like my body temperature is a little warmer
-Strength is through the roof. Increase in weights over the past two weeks
-Weight is up like 7 pounds, likely due to eating out and such
-I do seem more solid though, arms are definitely more muscular
-I have a lust for girls again, so that’s nice!
-Boners seem more solid
-Testicles are still around, haven’t shrunk too much

Overall, I would say TRT is for me. I’m wondering where I’ll be in the next two weeks, hopefully the symptoms keep improving!


#20

[quote]mccyjcb wrote:
This is my experience so far…

I’ve been taking 50mg Test Cyp E3D with 1cc 1/2" vials into the quad. I take 100mg Zinc Picolinate every night to combat aromatization. I didn’t feel the need for Arimidex when I can just take more Zinc. I also added 8mg copper to my diet to combat any Zinc toxicity. I have HCG, just haven’t used it yet.

-Sleep isn’t that much better
-Seems like my body temperature is a little warmer
-Strength is through the roof. Increase in weights over the past two weeks
-Weight is up like 7 pounds, likely due to eating out and such
-I do seem more solid though, arms are definitely more muscular
-I have a lust for girls again, so that’s nice!
-Boners seem more solid
-Testicles are still around, haven’t shrunk too much

Overall, I would say TRT is for me. I’m wondering where I’ll be in the next two weeks, hopefully the symptoms keep improving!
[/quote]

Your zinc usage is interesting. Is this typical and where did you learn about it? I’ve seen a lot of controversy regarding the doses and toxicity and it immediately caught my eye. :slight_smile:

Also it’s news to me it would have effect on aromataze.
What about your iron levels? Testo cyp puts weight on you all by itself even if you’d be on a maintain diet. Not hugely with that amount but atleast couple kilos are to be expected sooner or later.

This would be very interesting thread to follow and sub if you will take lab tests somewhat regularly and keep the zinc intake, and don’t use any Ai.

Really interesting. Plan to get labs with estradiol soon? :slight_smile: