T Nation

22 Years Old, Low T

22-age
6’0-height
38 -waist
278-weight

solid for the most part fat stomach and chest can grow full facial hair -describe body and facial hair
around the stomach and back -describe where you carry fat and how changed

good healt,h i did one bs cycle of tren and clen when i was 19 without test for about 3 weeks
then a year later was taking a estrogenx for about a week with rpn havoc didnt feel like it worked that’s about it -health conditions, symptoms [history]

now taking test cyp 200mg eo week was able to get dr to let me do injections at home . i did my first shot in the office the full 200mg then i came back in the office and asked to get script so i could do my own injections i then did a 100mg shot and will continue to do half doses of what ever my Dr prescribes weekly, because he wont do weekly doses
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever
ive had two labs done the first one my -lab results with ranges

eat at home normal foods frozen pizza burgers veggies sweet potato steak -describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]

i usually try to train 6 days a week 1 body part a day for about a 45 min to a hour with 20 min of cardio depending on how workout goes -describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training]

no problems here -testes ache, ever, with a fever?

erections were good until about my 5 week on androgel then poop hit the fan and libido has gotten worse -how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed

my concerns
are my dr wont prescribe my test on the weekly bases doesn’t think e2 test are important at all in men , and does not feel ai are for men either. i did bring in some info from the forums to try and educate my dr so hopefully they will look in to that
however i did find on here a place to possible get the liquid ai which is almost cheaper than i can get the pills through my insurance if it were prescribed. and im aware that i wouldn’t need only about a 1/4th of a pill if i went that route

history on the test
i went into the dr office and asked about my weight gain i was 237 in april of 2012 i was on oxy elite pro and about 270 November 2011 and now im back up to about 278 now. i mentioned that i thought maybe it could be low t because i was also a little down and depressed about my situation being heavy and all. i had no libido problems at all at this point.

dr suggested we do a full panel blood test he mentioned that he doubts that my t will be low because of my age so we do the blood test
they call back i go back in and he puts me on andro gel 1 pump in shoulder i was told to do that for six weeks then get more blood work done well
weeks 1-3 went well had full harder erections i think started oep pro again hoping to try and lose some weight with my work outs and cleaner diet
week 5 came and libido went away and i stopped taking the oxy elite pro thinking that it was stim ****

went and got blood work done and met with dr in week 6 my test levels went up a little but i now had no libido i told him i wanted the shot and he insisted i do the shot there that was last Tuesday libido still has not come back today i went and met another dr in the same clinic convinced her to let me take my injections at home give me a e2 test she was sketched out it worked and now im splitting my doses to 100mg a week instead of 200mg eo week

testosterone 228 range 241-827 10/09/2012 this was before i got on the androgel
testosterone 279 range 241-827 11/16/2012 6 weeks later other test were done to but it wasn’t ft e2 i had e2 done today when i went there to get the cyp rx i get more blood work next Tuesday and ill ask for the what you guys think i should get done that time im a noob

updated 11/30/12 got my e2 labs back 24.3 ref 7.6-42.6

Read the protocol for injections sticky for what you want us to post here. Inject 50mg twice a week SC [under the skin].

Read the advice for new guys sticky, check your body temps and post here. Thyroid problems can cause low T and weight gain.

Inability to have serum T respond to transdermal T is a symptom of low thyroid function.

You may have an estradiol problem and we need data for that. Also get prolactin levels tested. How is your peripheral vision? Near 180 degrees?

we need your pre TRT LH and FSH numbers, I hope that that work was done. Post all of you labs with ranges.

Lots to learn, hang in there. And read the posts of others in your age group. You are not alone.

here is the blood work that was done so far im waiting on my e2 blood work to come back hopefully it will interest my Dr enough to get her to start listening to me

peripheral vision seems good

TRT LH and FSH numbers were not done but since i switched docs im going to have her test everything that’s recommended on here

i did happen to read that i should do 50 eod for my 100mg a week but i think i will have enough syringes … and i will try the sc injection
and i still haven’t even brought up hcg im still fighting for the ai which i may end up getting from the research company seems easier that way

thanks

You may be able to get insulin syringes without a prescription. These are sold in boxes of 100.


correction here is the blood work thanks for info about the syringes


page 2

TSH may be indicative of a thyroid issue. Your lack of response to T-gel suggests a thyroid problem.

Read the advice for new guys sticky, check your body temps and post here. Thyroid problems can cause low T and weight gain.

I do not know why so many need to be asked to check and post body temperatures, repeatedly. And tell us what your iodine intake is. [iodized salt, possible ingredient in vitamins]

Albumin is a bit low, but an expected outcome of low T. Albumin is produced in the liver.

ALT/AST are slightly elevated. So one then asks:
-what Rx and OTC drugs
-where your muscles sore, that can do it easily

RBC is a bit low, comes with low T for some. And hematocrit is showing the same thing.

So what to do? The only things that I see that are a problem after looking at your labs is possible thyroid issues; and the best outcome of that would be a lack of iodine and that can be fixed. We would need fT3, fT4 and TSH to have a better picture. First action item is reporting body temperatures and iodine intake.

i have been under the weather lately i will do the body temps soon as i get over the cold i think that may mixup up my body temperature readings. i honestly had been avoiding salt unless it came on stuff that was prepared with it already on it. i didn’t realize how important iodine was ive never supplemented for it. whats your thoughts on waiting till i get better to look at the temps ?

Yes, we do not want to see temps associated with mild fever etc. But it would not kill you to see what is going on now.

Iodized salt is rarely used in restaurants or with prepared foods. And now you see packaging stating “sea salt” as a feature. Your iodine intake is inadequate.

There used to be iodine in bread as a dough conditioner, that was eliminated a long time ago. So your only reliable intake of iodine is your salt shaker or the tiny RDA in some vitamins.

You should start iodine replenishment. Adults store 1-1.5 GRAMS of iodine, mostly in the thyroid. Women store more, in their breast tissue, which may be a Darwinian advantage where offspring that acquired more iodine in breast milk were more likely to live to pass on that genetic disposition.

Will IR fix all of your problems? Perhaps not, but should be done on its own merit.

I like to have guys read this for context: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/ksman_has_a_thryoid_problem

thanks.i took my temp before heading to bed it was 97.3. i will retake it again when i wake up im just getting over a cold not sure how much effect that has on the temp since im getting over the cold at this point.

temperature today was 97.3 again i have been checking my temp almost everyday for the last few days and its never been in the 98’s except once, however i did order some j crows lugols iodine it finally came yesterday should i just drop it in my water or straight onto my tongue?

oh and i think im going to stop my test shots and see if the iodine changes things i want to get my lab work done off the test and see what things look like

Iodine tastes bad, take in water.

I have no idea what getting off of T will do or tell you.

Im almost 24 yrs old and im still tring to figure out my TRT. My test level was 311 when i tested so my Dr wasnt worried. I called couple days later after reseaching and he told me I could try test 200mg a month but my insurance may not pay for it. I was excited to find out my insurance covered it. I did 1 200mg shot and felt great till the test started to wear off. I tried to split it up and do 100mg every 2 weeks and still feel the wear off. so I am having a hard time convincing my dr to give me 100mg a week.

I use 23 gauge needles and its a little hard to draw from the vial and feels like a spear going into my butt cheak but its tolerable. Will the insulin syrings work?

6’1
250ish
powerlifter body
gained lots of fat after taiking a year off. trying to get back into it.

Hey Deluxe.

Start your own thread so you’re not hijacking. I’m not saying this to be an asshole, I’m saying this because plenty needs to be said concerning your case. For example, 200mg once a month is not only a low amount, it is a terrible dosing schedule. 50mg 2x/week should be the minimum. You can get your own insulin syringes and self-inject subQ if your doc will allow you to take the vial home. He probably made the insurance comment because he only has a code in his system for once a month. That’s fine, just tell him you will self-inject once a month 400mg, and self-inject 50mg 2x/week.

Read through this and get some labs for your post

[quote]deluxesp wrote:
Im almost 24 yrs old and im still tring to figure out my TRT. My test level was 311 when i tested so my Dr wasnt worried. I called couple days later after reseaching and he told me I could try test 200mg a month but my insurance may not pay for it. I was excited to find out my insurance covered it. I did 1 200mg shot and felt great till the test started to wear off. I tried to split it up and do 100mg every 2 weeks and still feel the wear off. so I am having a hard time convincing my dr to give me 100mg a week.

I use 23 gauge needles and its a little hard to draw from the vial and feels like a spear going into my butt cheak but its tolerable. Will the insulin syrings work?

6’1
250ish
powerlifter body
gained lots of fat after taiking a year off. trying to get back into it. [/quote]

Maybe google took you here, but do not hijack this guy’s thread, start your own and keep all of your stuff in that post, keep coming back to it so everything about you is in one spot so we can help you. Create your own thread and copy the above there, then come back here and using the [edit] in the lower RH corner, replace your post with ‘deleted’.

Read the advice for new guys sticky and the protocol for injections sticky. There is also one for finding a TRT doc.

You should not have started TRT, you should have been looking for a cause and fixing that.