T Nation

22 Y/O with Low Test and High Estradiol

Hey KSman

When i started iodine and the anti estrogens I felt about 5% of my former self. After one week I am up to about 25%. I get my blood results back from the doctor tomorrow and was going to ask him to perscribe me with the testosterone and HCG as I really want to be back to 100% and actually enjoy my life fully and just as importantly get rid of my low libod and especially my ED which is ruining me mentally with my girlfriend and is making her life rubbish too.

I have read alot of topics on here but this never was very clear to me

  1. Can you inject HCG and Testosterone in the same needle?
  2. Can you inject HCG and Testosterone SC or does it have to be IM?
  3. Can I do this for 12 weeks then run PCT and see where my body naturally falls after having the HCG stimulate my LH to do its job or should I stay on for life?
  4. I know you write 100ml of Testosterone administered 2 times a week but is there any issue (as money is not a problem) of doing 50ml 3 times a week? From what I have read more testosterone as long as you keep E2 under control is a good thing

BTW the iodine info was absolutely amazing and I feel like I have so much more energy. It is pretty good not to be falling asleep at midday anymore. I just need the sexual problems figured out!!!

Cheers once again :slight_smile:

You should not mix hCG and T. If the hCG gets trapped in the oil, it will degrade before getting absorbed.

SC or IM does not matter, find what is most comfortable for you.

Inject T twice a week and take 1/2 mg anastrozole at the same time.

Glad to see that you are making progress!

KSman wrote:
You should not mix hCG and T. If the hCG gets trapped in the oil, it will degrade before getting absorbed.

Will definitely take the HCG and Test in 2 different needles then! I see you recommend insulin syringes which is excellent as I am not the biggest fan of thick needles! I will get my girlfriend to inject me since she is a nurse and I trust her skills over mine!

SC or IM does not matter, find what is most comfortable for you.

Roger that I will try both and see which one I prefer

Inject T twice a week and take 1/2 mg anastrozole at the same time.

I will definitely inject 2 times weekly with the testosterone. In regards to the HCG I have seen you and other knowledgeble people suggest 250iu EOD which I will do and I will get weekly blood tests for your perusal. I will keep up both the anastrozole and the SERM until you tell me otherwise as well as constantly monitoring my E2 levels via blood tests to ensure I can maintain 22. BTW will post results tomorrow

Glad to see that you are making progress!

So am I. It is great to have the energy back and as I said I just need the other half of the puzzle.

One last question

Please dont beat me with a stick for asking this but is increasing testosterone to 150ml to 200ml a week but not over a bad idea as long as I keep E2 in check? I have seen numerous people who are on trt get perscribed up to 250ml of Test a week and was wondering why you recommend 100ml? Is 100ml the starting point then if you do not see the results you want you can increase from there. Once again cheers for all of your help :slight_smile:

Waking temperature 3 October: 97.5

So my lab results are making me physically angry.

LH - 8 IU/L (3-20)
FSH - 9 IU/L (3-20)
Oestradiol - 218 (Optimum is 80 according to your numbers KSMan)
Free Testosterone (Calc) 708 - (150 - 700)
Testosterone - 25 nmol (10-33)

So as you can see my E2 HAS GONE UP!

I am very very angry at this as it is completely wrecking my life with my misses. I am happy I am no longer falling asleep but the fact I cannot get it up even with viagra is a completely unacceptable situation.

So here is my plan for the next week

3mg of anaztrozole in 3 doses
140mg of SERM in 7 20mg doses

Sound good? I just want my E2 levels down as fast as possible side effects be damned at this point as the mental anger of not being able to “perform” is far worse than any side effects I can see with overusing Anaztrozole

Waking temperature 7 October - 98.06

So KSman I went to the endo today and he was absolutely bloody useless. Refused to give me TRT and apparently no doctor in Australia will because they cannot justify giving Testosterone to a 22 year old male. So he has refered me to get a scan of my pituitary to see if that is affecting my hormones.

If it is not that then I will just buy testosterone and HCG illegally because there is no way in hell I am continuing to live like this. Any suggestions on my situation would be much appreciated

Cheers

Waking temperature 9 October - 98.06

Waking temperature 10 October - 98.06

So KSman after taking 10mg of Serm everyday and 1 mg of Anastrozole for the first week and 6mg of anastrozole the second my blood results are as follows

LH - 8iu/l (3-20)
FSH - 10iu/l (3-20)
Oestradiol - 107 pmol/l (150 or less) Although you said 80 to be perfect
TT - 26 nmol (10 - 33) this is 750 ng/dl in american :slight_smile:
Free test - 761 pmol/l (150 - 750)
SHBG - 18 nmol/l (13-71)

They are better than before but the problem is I still have absolutely zero sex drive and my erections last for 2 minutes before loosing them and they are not rock hard. What do you suggest I do now?

That is E2=29 pg/ml

Could be lower yet.

Your FT is good.

So that is the result of SERM for two weeks? Might have done labs too soon.

The SERM is creating too much LH/FSH and your T–>E2 inside the testes is high. Your 6mg anastrozole per week is barely effective. You should not need that much! You know your serum E2 but T–>E2 inside the brain might be too low. Some aromatization occurs for local cellular utilization. But there really is no hard data concerning such things - brain biopsies are considered unethical.

What SERM?

  • how have you been feeling?
  • some depression since the SERM?

That is E2=29 pg/ml

Could be lower yet.

Your FT is good.

So that is the result of SERM for two weeks? Might have done labs too soon.

The SERM is creating too much LH/FSH and your T–>E2 inside the testes is high. Your 6mg anastrozole per week is barely effective. You should not need that much! You know your serum E2 but T–>E2 inside the brain might be too low. Some aromatization occurs for local cellular utilization. But there really is no hard data concerning such things - brain biopsies are considered unethical.

What SERM?

  • how have you been feeling?
  • some depression since the SERM?

SERM Nolvadex-D Tamoxifen tablets BP tamoxifen (as nitrate)
Not been feeling depressed since starting SERM. I massively upped the intake of anastrozole to reduce my increaseing E2 levels and was surprised that despite my massive dosage my E2 is still high…

The problem at the moment is I still have zero sex drive and my erections are weak and fade away after a couple of minutes.

My questions at this point are

  1. What else can I do? What else do you want me to do? I want my sex drive and erections back!!! Tell me what to do and I will follow it to the letter!

New Blood Test Results

LH - 11iu/l (3-20)
FSH - 10iu/l (3-20)
Oestradiol - 97 pmol/l (150 or less) Although you said 80 to be perfect
TT - 24 nmol (10 - 33) this is 690 ng/dl in american :slight_smile:
Free test - 704 pmol/l (150 - 750)
SHBG - 17 nmol/l (13-71)

So as you can see my estrodial is coming down but my symptoms are getting worse. I have absolutely zero sex drive whatsoever and cannot get or maintain erections.

At this point what should I do? Why is my bloods back under control yet I have every single symptom still? At this point I am so over it I am just going to run a cycle. 12 weeks of Test E at 250mg a week injected in 2 125 gram doses and HCG at 250 IU twice a week. Then I will run a PCT and see where my numbers fall. I cannot go on like this much longer…

Your FT should allow for good libido.

Body temps are better. Can you get 98.6 in the afternoon.

Your high fT3 and lower body temps suggested rT3 and adrenal fatigue. Perhaps there are some issues there.

How long have you been running with the protocol that yielded the above labs?

I don’t think that gear is going to fix anything, probably a bigger mess.

Your FT should allow for good libido.

One would have thought but No.

Body temps are better. Can you get 98.6 in the afternoon.

Yes i can hit 98.6 in the afternoon.

Your high fT3 and lower body temps suggested rT3 and adrenal fatigue. Perhaps there are some issues there.

I am getting another full blood panel done up again soon so we will see if what we have done has fixed them.

How long have you been running with the protocol that yielded the above labs?

About 2 and a half coming up on 3 weeks

I don’t think that gear is going to fix anything, probably a bigger mess.

At this point I am willing to try anything. It sucks being me right now…
[/quote]

You need to be looking at other issues that affect health and vitality.

It takes time for the benefits of any form of TRT to happen. You should keep doing what you are doing for another month to see how your mind and body respond.

Are you depressed?

[quote]KSman wrote:
You need to be looking at other issues that affect health and vitality.

It takes time for the benefits of any form of TRT to happen. You should keep doing what you are doing for another month to see how your mind and body respond.

Are you depressed?[/quote]

I am getting a full blood panel done up very soon so we will see how that looks. I have no other medical issues at all and despite this I dont feel sick at all.

The erection and sex drive is giving me depression but I am not depressed if that makes sense. IE not being able to have sex is making me feel like shit but I am not depressed

What tests would you like me to get outside of the normal ones? I am getting a full blood panel done tomorrow and if there is anything in particular you would like to see me get tested now is the time to ask.

So KSMan I have been following this protocol for over 3 and a half weeks now so I thought I would write an update.

The iodine cleaned up my very low body temperatures and stopped me from falling asleep at midday.

I started taking Nova and Anastrozole which has increased my LH and FSH as well as total test and free test and lowering my estrodial.

The main problem is that despite seeing a vast improvement in my numbers I still have almost zero libido and ED. So I am wondering is it possible that my current numbers while within “average” ranges are just not optimal for me meaning that TRT is a viable option, I mean you said you had to increase your dose to feel optimal even though you were in normal ranges so is it possible that I might need to increase my test levels closer to 1500 for me to feel “optimal”?

I get my test results back on tuesday from my latest blood test and I am seeing a sex clinic on monday to ask about getting Test E and and naturopath on wednesday to ensure I can run weekly blood tests from now on. I am way more concered about the prostate issues involved in “not getting off” that the issues with high test.

I know I am more than likely being annoying by coming on here asking for advice but the whole not having any libido and ED is making me feel like utter rubbish and is really affecting my relationship with my misses. I will literally try anything at this point to get back to how I should be

Your numbers are fine. You don’t need 1500 TT. It takes time for DNA changes to occur at cell level. You can’t simply alter you serum blood levels and expect an overnight change.

I get a sense that you might be little obsessive and over analyze things. You sure your sexual performance isn’t linked to performance anxiety? And you’re just driving yourself to this? Are you able to masturbate and have an orgasm? If yes, the problem is in your dome, kid.

I agree, sometimes it takes 6 weeks for TRT to deliver changes and labs done too soon are not really informative.

Libido and sexual function are things that are rooted in your brain, not between your legs. So we are waiting for changes in brain activity and patterns.

You asked why 100mg/week earlier.
-because many do well with that and many fail to get “balanced” on high doses. The fact that some docs Rx high amounts does not really have any bearing.