T Nation

22 with No T

So I noticed over a year ago what felt like gynecomastia but just over the past few days I really feel like it’s showing up more so am getting worried. Its much more pronounced around my right nipple. The rest of my chest is pretty lean when tensed but has just protrudes at the nipple and when I touch it I can feel lumps that feel similar to gristle in meat.
It may be in my head that it’s gotten worse but it’s definitely worrying me right now, I don’t want to have to have surgery to remove this!

I’ve cut down the dosage of Pregnl, bought iodized salt, ordered iodine drops to mega dose and am waiting to get the other bloods done. Is there anything else I should be doing to ensure this gyno doesn’t get worse?

Who else in your household would be iodine deficient?

Elevated E2 or prolactin+E2 can cause gyno and the effects are worse when there is not much competing T.

Too much hCG leads to high E2 as stated again and again. Anastrozole cannot reduce this testicular source of E2. This hCG dose is totally wrong and stupid.

hCG will suppress LH/FSH, doing those labs is a waste of time+$$$

Am currently living at home with my parents and sister so potentially everyone in my household although we don’t all eat the same diet, I cook most of my own meals none of us have been using iodised salt.
My mum took her temperature and got 36.9.

I can’t believe the doctor put me on such a high dose without even giving it a second thought! Not even a check up for 5 months from prescription!

I have now reduced the dose to under 1000iu per week as suggested so should that be enough to get the E back down?

I’ve received the Lugols 15% iodine solution and taken the first dose although am now reading that lugols can actually increase thyroid problems?! Is there any truth to this?

Also would you recommend dosing by putting the drops onto the skin to absorb or simply put it into a little water and drinking the solution?

Thanks again

Have just been recommended by my Endo that I stop HCG completely and monitor bloods due to my E being high as my Test is now “in range”. What is your opinion on this? Am unsure as Test is still not particularly high although HCG was only ever supposed to be a kick start for the Testes to start producing T again so not something to be on forever.

Would I see greater benefit in sticking with the lower recommended 250iu eod dosage and if so how long should that treatment continue?

He’s also agreed to look further into the possibility that these issues have been caused by a thyroid issue.

Thanks in advance

Tell your doc that you are going to try the low dose hCG. Your doc created the E2 problem with high dose hCG.

Thanks Ksman, I’ll do that. Not certain but feel like I may be feeling slightly better the past couple of days so don’t see how they can argue with me changing the prescription if it’s helping me. Can’t get bloods done for a couple weeks due to working away so will wait an see what difference this change in dosage will make. Fingers crossed!

Have received my latest bloods after asking specifically for all that you recommended Ksman to find that all they’ve tested for my thyroid is the one that you said is useless, Serum Free T3 so am pretty aggravated especially as it’s now the weekend and I’ll be unable to contact anyone regarding this.

Anyway the results I did get were

Serum Free T3 2.7pmol/L (3.8 - 6.0) Low
Serum testosterone 12.4nmol/L (10 - 30)
Serum Oestradiol 104pmol/L
Serum LH level < 0.2 I.U./1 (1.5 - 9.3) Low

So I guess I could possibly look at the positive of E2 dropping over half since changing to the 250iu eod protocol but then my testosterone has also almost halved as well so am struggling.

Am guessing this information is useless without the correct Thyroid results but is there anything you could possibly take from this as far as my HCG protocol?

I do feel less moody but am certainly not feeling good.

I know the information is aggravatingingly unhelpful but any input at all would be greatly appreciated.

You have fT3=2.7 , that is the one that gets the job done from a lab point of view. So you are OK.
Mid range would be 4.6, so you really should be hypothyroid with that. Body temps are low. I think that your major focus should be getting your thyroid issue under control. That is enough to make a guy with high T levels feel like crap.

The best situation would be an uncomplicated case if iodine deficiency. You fix that and problem solved. Better than a thyroid disease!

You would be good near E2=80pmol/l, but a major improvement.

Thanks a lot for the help Ksman. I’ve actually managed to get referred to a thyroid specialist now and am just waiting on an appointment date which will hopefully be beneficial?

I have been supplementing with 50mg iodine for almost a month now as well as switching to iodised salt but have yet to experience any noticeable effect as yet so am not sure it’ll be such an easy fix.

You say my thyroid problems would cause someone to feel bad even with high T. Is this a definite that even if I were to start TRT I’d still feel bad or difficult to say? Really just feel like I need some kind of boost.

What would you recommend my next step be? Is it worth getting the bloods they didn’t test tested for thyroid or is FT3 enough?

Has been a while since I posted on here simply due to feeling that I’ve had no progress to speak of but here’s an update.

After originally testing for thyroid and having a result of 2.7 FT3 I was retested and came back as normal at 6.1, 6 weeks later this was retested with a result of TSH - 2.3 and T4 at 7.7 (8.5-16)

I’ve been referred for a second opinion but as the wait was so long I’ve also gone for a private consultation.
The private consultant wants to look further into my thyroid problem with further testing as well as an initial test for adrenal function in a bid to find the cause of my low T but the costs are so high I’m currently unsure on this being a viable option but am seeking to put this through public health care, I’ll just have to be patient.

In the meantime I have been offered either a higher dose of HCG (2000iu per week was suggested which I’m unhappy with given my past experience on high dose HCG and the advice of this forum or Testogel to possibly give me a temporary boost whilst the cause is being identified.

Given that I’'ve now been using HCG at 250iu eod for months now with no raise in testosterone, only decrease (latest lab showed 7.1nmol 10-30 being the lab range) I’m considering trying Testogel.

Any advice would be much appreciated, am feeling like giving up with how long this has gone on with no progress.

KSman - would be great to have your opinion

First, as stated many times, it is typical for guys with hypothyroid issues to not absorb transdermal T, so TestoGEL might not absorb. You would be better off self injecting T cypionate or ethanate.

Have body temperatures improved with the iodine replenishment?

So ft3 is now well above midrange. If body temperatures are low, that suggests that rT3 might be blocking T3 receptors and not enough T3 is entering the cells.

T4 is way below mid range. Not what I would expect with higher fT3 levels. TSH can take time to settle after an iodine deficiency.

If you have consumed 750mg total iodine, you should drop to a small maintenance dose.

The symptoms of hypothyroidism are similar to TRT, so starting TRT can leave one with unresolved symptoms. If TRT increases metabolic demands that cannot be achieved because of low thyroid function, some guys can feel worse.

So if it is the case that rt3 is blocking T3, what could be causing this and what would the solution be?

The latest specialist I saw wants to also retest pituitary in case there is something that didn’t show up on the initial test but may show up now.

He also said he found it strange that LH hadn’t increased to which I explained it would stay low due to my injecting HCG. He told me the dose I’m on wouldn’t effect LH. Is this true or have I found another doctor who doesn’t have the knowledge on this?

Really feel like I’m spinning my wheels, getting nowhere.

Seems the first half of my post didn’t send.

I understand that absorption can be a problem but as hCG hasn’t helped so far I’m just hoping there may be another opportunity for a boost of some sort but I guess it’s not the way forward.

Am slightly worried that long term HCG may cause or have caused desensitization of the Leydig cells especially after overdosing initially. Is this something I should be concerned about?

If I could get a doctor to prescribe me cypionate or ethanate I would have but the response I always get is no that’s a bodybuilding protocol or that’s not common endocrinology even when I back it up with studies. The frustration is unbelievable!
I’ve considered self medicating but am just unsure on sources and the quality I could get hold of :-/

Body temperatures are still low, averaging at around 36 degrees.
I did experience some strange burning sensations in my eyes, face, throat and stomach whilst dosing 50mg iodine every day and have since lowered the dose to 7.5mg each week.

I’m in the same situation and age… Specialised endo has gave me TRT to start… Going to store my sperm and go with it… I have low rt3 too which I’m not sure if iodine fixes or not…

Not a fun situation is it.

At least your endo has prescribed TRT, what protocol will you be on?

Have you tried mega dosing iodine?

[quote]Ace39 wrote:
Not a fun situation is it.

At least your endo has prescribed TRT, what protocol will you be on?

Have you tried mega dosing iodine? [/quote]

Not atall mate, battling to her sperm storage atm but they need a HIV test before I can even book an appointment!

No I haven’t tried iodine yet but Iv got some… I told both endos about my low body temp and they agreed RT3/4 are low on my bloods but said to treat the T wirh TRT (testogel 1 sachet 2 months) have bloods and then see…
Guess they think the low T is causing the low thyroid and not other way around…

I’m secondary as my pituitary isn’t giving out enough LH for some reason. It’s giving out enough of the other hormone oddly…

My T is 4-7nmol which is low, but I don’t have bad symptoms (can maintain erection etc) so half tempted to leave it be…

Everything seems to be so drawn out through the Nhs, I just wish I had private medical insurance.
If I were you I’d still try to freeze some sperm and try iodine mega dosing in the meantime.

Seems your endos think the opposite way to mine in that mine would much prefer I don’t start TRT and instead find the cause yet one has no plans to find it and the other wants to charge £900 just to run adrenal function tests.

Both have agreed to prescribe testogel but from what I’ve read it doesn’t seem a great option for anyone and especially not someone with a possible thyroid issue. If only I could get someone to prescribe the protocol KSman suggests!

Hmm strange our levels are very similar yet we don’t show the same symptoms.
What was it that made you realise you had low T?

Am guessing you’re in England?

That’s strange Havnt heard anything wrong with testogel seems the main one they use in uk?

Iv gone private as I had insurance but all 3 endos iv seen want to give me TRT and dismiss most of the stuff iv read (iodine etc etc)

So for me I think I’m going to try the TRt

Main symptoms are tiredness and lack of labido but nothing major was seeing GP for some thing else when he noticed my lot T results from a year ago and refered me
To endo…

Yes I’m in uk too… I’ll see how bloods look after testogel

None would talk about using hcg or clomid did u find that?

Have heard that absorption isn’t good with testogel and haven’t heard of anyone achieving higher levels of T whilst on testogel have you? Anything I’ve seen seems to show it gets people just in range but at the lower end.
Another thing I’m not keen on with Testogel is the lack of an AI or HCG alongside.

I guess private isn’t always the answer then.
Will be interesting how Testogel works out for you.

When you say none would talk about HCG or Clomid do you mean at all or alongside Test?
I actually tried Clomid first which boosted T for a bit but I felt terrible on it so then was put on 2000iu HCG 2x per week and felt better for abit then ended up feeling the worst I have in my life when my E2 went up so lowered the dose to KSmans recommendation.
Feel better as far as mood goes but still lack of libido, energy, focus and can’t seem to build muscle :confused: