T Nation

22 with Low Test, Full Blood Panels


I believe I have had low T for a long, long time, and pretty frustrating ED for pretty much FOREVER. I did use some AAS in college, roughly 3 cycles. First cycle just test E, forgot exactly what the middle cycle would have been, and a final cycle of test E and tren A. I always followed the recommended PCTs. AIs on cycle (aromasin), and SERMs clomid and nolva after following standard PCT dosage schedules. Never used HCG.

Just got the results from my Urologist today, he referred me to an endo. Endo was booked up for a long time, so I'm going to try a different endo but at the same practice. I'm seeing the endo tomorrow to talk about the results. Looking for anything I should be aware of going into the endo meeting. Urologist said my low FSH wasn't the cause of my low T, is this right? Will see what the endo says...

-age - 22

-height - 6' 3"

-waist - not exactly sure how to measure it, but around my belly and lovehandles is 37.6" fully relaxed, upper abs is 36"

-weight - 217 lb.

-describe body and facial hair
Used to be huge (309 lb) when I played college football, been cutting since then. Facial hair (as well as hair all over body) has been pretty much non-existent. I get some stubble on the very bottom of chin, and a little mustache, but both thin and scraggly

-describe where you carry fat and how changed
Almost 100% on torso, belly/chest. My legs are freakin lean, pretty lean arms, still have a gut after losing almost 100 pounds. Photos are here: imgur.com/a/45qrW/all

-health conditions, symptoms [history]
None, other than some major head trauma, 8 years of football, broke jaw, knocked out a couple times (not during football),

-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever
-- real dangers! see this http://propeciahelp.com/overvi...

-lab results with ranges (bolded low and/or worrisome to me results)
Protein, Total 7.8 g/dL (6.1-8.1)
Albumin 5.2 g/dL (3.6-5.1)
Globulin 2.6 g/dL (1.9-3.7)
Albumin/Globulin Ratio 2.0 (1.0-2.5)
Bilirubin, Total 1.3 mg/dL (0.2-1.2)
Bilirubin, Direct 0.3 mg/dL (<=0.2)
Bilirubin, Indirect 1.0 mg/dL (0.2-1.2)
Alkaline Phosphatase 89 U/L (40-115)
AST 22 U/L (10-40)
ALT 29 U/L (9-46)
Dihydrotestosterone, LC/MS/MS 19 ng/DL (16-79)
FSH 1.0 mIU/mL (1.6-8.0)
LH 1.7 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)
Prolactin 8.2 ng/mL (2.0-18.0)
Estradiol 33 pg/mL (<=39)
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS/MS 294 ng/dL (250-1100)
Free Testosterone 55.6 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]
I did definitely do a starvation diet around like 15, but bulked heavy from jr. year of high school trough my senior season of CFB. Been doing a keto cut for a couple months now.

-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training]
High school football/other sports, average training and crossfit
In college, trained with the football team, and in off-season trained at world class PL gym

-testes ache, ever, with a fever?
Had ache/pain very rarely, never with a fever

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed
Basically non-existent in the morning, and at night difficult to keep and maintain even with hot girls!


Your estrogen dominant.. this is a pituitary issue..

How long is a Long long time?

What were you serm doses? Did you drop off the serm. Standard doses are often to much and lead to lh desensitization.. E2 is high with T that low. You are estrogen dominant..

Have you thought to maybe try a serm restart again at a low dose and tapering off of it and landing on an Ai?

Lh is short lived and fsh is a better more steady level to judge your problem isn't not in the testies or its a little bit of both but the low levels defiantly say something. When the problem is primary, most times we see lh and fsh elevated

Endo's are idiots be prepared.. And actually unless you need an MRI or something I wouldn't even both with him lol..

At your age I would do everything I can to see what's wrong.. Ask for some thyroid labs..

Good luck!!


Thanks for the input. What I meant by a long time is that honestly the way I feel now is about how I felt before I used AAS at all. Even when i was 16 17 I had similar LOW libido, and after coming off cycles I never felt markedly worse than I ever had before.

That plus it's been about a year since my last PCT I would think that everything would have returned to the baseline by now wouldn't it?

My first couple PCTs were just the nolva at 40/40/20/20 and then I believe my last one was clomid at 50/50/50/50 and nolva at 20/20/10/10/10/10. I took aromasin pretty liberally throughout, don't remember the exact schedule I used though


That 50/50 of clomid could have thrown lh and fsh way above range. This can pooch the Hpta.

The only way to know for sure is to run clomid at about half the recommended dose or even 12.5 mg while running an aI and after a few weeks get labs, adjust from there but don't bring lh and fsh to some stupid numbers.. More is not better..

No it will not always normalize..

Good luck


Just got back from the endo, actually seemed like they knew wtf they were talking about!! (at least so far) Maybe it pays to live in the big city with half a dozen big med schools here. Long, frustrating process with each set of labs taking 4 weeks to get back ughh, but at least these people seem to be making progress. They ordered an MRI looking for a pituitary tumor, thyroid labs. Ferramin and SHBG labs, as well another set of T labs, another Albumin (liver), and LH FSH again. Hopefully they get to the bottom of this, will try to update when I see the doc again in 4 weeks.

Thanks for the advice man. So you are saying that throwing LH and FSH way up could make them drop down this low a year later?


It sometimes desensitizes them.. Meaning they get use to a strong signal and being way high and when the strong signal is taken away and we go back to normal they don't produce the way they use to. You could still try and recover this with a lighter load and see if you can get them back on board.. Maybe not but better then the life long trt route


in addition to all of the above, you may have experienced "estrogen rebound" if you didn't continue aromasin use after stopping the SERMs.