T Nation

21 Y/O - Something Isn't Right


#1

21 years old
5'7
185lbs
15ish% bodyfat
no previous AAS or prohormone usage

did my lab tests last week, just waiting for the results and will post them up here. just curious if anybody has any guesses just based on symptoms, if not i can wait until i post the numbers up for the proper assessment.

Things that you can determine without lab work

Symptoms: Why are you here
-Brain fog, no one knows what that means but everyone knows if they have it! HUGE problem
-Social withdrawal - "I would rather not go out"
-Why do I have boobs? This really is depressing if prolactin is the cause!
-Why do I carry fat like a woman? inner thighs, chest, biceps, waist
-Why am I a moody bitch? get angry very easy
-It is up, now it's gone ....enough said
-My penis is numb -your nerves love T too.
-My scrotum is up-tight, gives "how are they hanging" a whole new meaning.
-Nocturnal erections -necessary but not sufficient...nope
-"morning wood" -things are working...NOPE
-Loss of hair on lower legs, shins hairy, calves losing hair
-I am not depressed, I just don't care about anything, no joy, no motivation, no reward
-Workout and eat right (90% of the time) but still cannot build extra muscle or lose weight when i try.
-Takes an hour minimum to fall asleep at night.
-Night sweats.
-Shy, quiet personality, unless taking strong test boosters personality completely changes.

never ever feel cold, always feel too hot, even sleep with the window wide open in winter, if that makes a difference. constantly lack of energy, need 2 or 3 coffees or a couple energy drinks a day just to function. cannot get a decent workout in without caffeine. brain fog. EXTREMELY difficult to wakeup in the morning, usually hit snooze for 30-45 minutes. testicles are fairly large though, which i dont understand as far as low testosterone symptoms go. workout and eat right, friends know me as that health freak who is always in the gym, yet still wont take my shirt off because nothing is changing no matter how much i workout or how clean i eat, which screams hormonal imbalance.

lab work was done while taking a testofen/tribulus product. it was a last minute thing and didnt have time to get it out of my system. have been taking so called testosterone boosters for the past year just to function in day to day life. they make all the difference in the world. i suspect my estradiol is off the charts though. when i take mucuna puriens, a supposed prolactin inhibitor, wood is unmistakable and spontaneous so i presume my prolactin is elevated along with estradiol.

supplements:
potent 2x a day multivitamin
10,000iu vitamin a
400iu vitamin e
4000iu vitamin d
2g vitamin c
b complex
2-4g fish oil
25-50mg extra zinc (30mg in multivitamin)
400-600mg magnesium citrate before bed
iodized salt
pre and intraworkout supplements (creatine, aminos, etc.)
whey powder
insulin mimicker to prevent fat gain (it works)

i cycle the following:
testofen, tribulus, tongkat, mucuna, dim, nettle root, horny goat weed, maca, catuaba, avena, muira puma, chyrsin

diet is high protein, moderate fat and moderate to lowish carbs

regardless of anything i do i havent functioned 100% or even 70% in as long as i can remember. very overweight during puberty so i presume i had a strong estrogen dominance. fairly hairy all over and am currently sporting a beard though so hair growth is not a problem.

appreciate the future help and will post numbers as soon as i get my hands on them.

any and all input is welcome. thanks!


#2

You are complete idiot (typical young and dumb) if you think you are capable of understanding the complexity of HRT from reading a few forums on line. Endos have been in school for several years and still do not get it LOL. Back to the main point Self adminster steroids is the worst thing you can do in this case because the cause of the issue. IF your car would not start then you end up ripping the engine all apart, before looking to find out that you have a no gas in the first place? REal smart eh? This is the mentality of what you are approaching this with. First of all you are commiting a crime. You piss the wrong person off they get alittle heat from police they will turn on your faster then you can shake it. Don't beleive me try it and see. Many of my freinds have had it happened thinking the same thingy. End result, your career as you know it will not get off a good start. After having 3000+ clinical hours, dealing with 500+ patients I have seen the same mentality from young and naive guys thinking they can beat the system due to some gym rat telling them to. The funny thing is I am also a gym rat. I have been national level bodybuilder and powerlifter for year. I have been around the game longer then most of younger guys been alive. So best piece of advice is to identify the cause and stop listening to gym idiots because they think they know everything and they do not.


#3

lets wait for the labs, remember to post the lab ranges


#4

point taken. i probably jumped the gun way too fast and thought it would be easy.


#5

will do. should come in any day now.


#6

now that i have you guys here, i was just wondering if you could answer a quick question. ive googled the hell out of it already, i was just wondering about personal experiences here. how do you feel something like DIM or chrysin compares to arimidex for estrogen control when not on TRT, just naturally high estrogen. also, im guessing that once you get it under control with arimidex, you have to dose it for life or else it would rebound?


#7

If you stop taking an aromatase inhibitor, it is no longer inhibited. It is a maintenance drug, not a cure.

Chrysin is expensive and poorly absorbed. Anastrozole is cheaper and gets the job done. You should not have any expectation that the "herbals" can deliver optimal levels. As for lowering E2 when not on TRT, you are asking the wrong crowd. Note that many with low T also have low E2 levels, so they do not need to lower E2 levels.

For many, purchasing herbals is buying a dream.

Some who are not on TRT can take 1/2mg anastrozole per week in divided doses to good effect, if their E2 levels are elevated.


#8

When dealing with Dr patients in the past, controlling e2 has been done through proper lifestyle, nutrition , and other methods if it is not from some other issues. With these people I give it 6-8 week then if no resolution i suggest that they take it to the next level of and AI which aromasin IMO would be better due to the less of the rebound effect while under dr's supervision


#9

so i just got my numbers. i only got the range for TT, FT, SHBG and E2 sorry. ill convert all the numbers to what users typically post up on here.

LH - 5
FSH - 3
TT - 14.9pmol/l (7.6-31.4) translates to 429pg/ml (219-905)
FT - 45.7 (31-94)
E2 - 86 (<157) translates to 23 (<41)
SHBG - 28 (10-57)
PROLACTIN - 17 (2 - 18)
TSH - 2.48
T3 - 6.2
fT4 - 20
CORTISOL (am fasting) - 584 converts to 21
DHEA-S 10.5 converts to 3.87
GLUCOSE (am fasting) 4.4 converts to 79.3
Hemoglobin - 175 converts to 17.5
Hemoatocrit - 0.52

Cholesterol 5.9
Triglycerides .78
HDL 1.55
LDL 3.99
Ratio 3.8
B12 - 1016
Ferritin - 162

E2 seems normal which is a HUGE shock to me. TT is low and prolactin is way elevated. right?


#10

Ranges would be helpful.


#11

i know. i got the numbers over the phone. i have to go in and get the actual report. but right off that bat you can see TT is too low and prolactin is high.

its funny cause they left a msg yesterday saying everything was "normal" and when i asked for numbers today they were confused and asked "umm..ok...why?"


#12

What were you 'on' for that lab work.


#13

a testofen/tribulus based product.

120 Hybrid Capsules
Serving Size4Capsules
Servings Per Container30

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Vitamin B6 (As Pyridoxine HCl) 10.5mg 525%
Magnesium (As Magnesium Aspartate) 90mg 23%
Zinc (As Zinc Aspartate) 30mg 200%

Test Freak Hybrid Pro-Testosterone Formula 3140.5mg
(Promotes Unbound Bioactive Testosterone) 1100mg â? 
TESTOFEN�® Fenugreek (Trigonella Foenum Graecum) (Seed) Standardized To 50% (350 Mg) Fenusideâ?¢ 700mg
TRIGOTESTâ?¢ Fenugreek (Trigonella Foenum Graecum) (Seed) Standardized To 20% (80 Mg) Testosidesâ?¢ 400mg

Methyl Gallate Ester Testosterone Matrix 1000mg â? 
(Promotes Natural Testosterone Production Via Luteinizing Hormone Release)
Tribulus Terrestris - Methyl Gallate Ester 1000mg
Standardized To Maximum 60% (600 Mg) Saponins /20% (200 Mg) Protodioscin

Zinc-Testâ?¢ Support Complex 610.5mg â? 
(Provides Clinically Proven Building Blocks Of Testosterone)
Zinc Aspartate, Magnesium Aspartate, Vitamin B6

DHT Control Complex 280mg â? 
(Supports Testosterone-To-DHT Conversion Control)
Saw Palmetto Extract (Serenoa Repens) 160mg
Standardized To Free Fatty Acids And Sterols
Stinging Nettle Extract (Urtica Dioica) 120mg
Aromatase Regulation Support Complex 150mg â? 
(Supports Testosterone-To-Estrogen Conversion Control)
[(S)-2,3-Dihydro-5,7-Dihydroxy-2-(3-Hydroxy-4-Methoxyphenyl-4-H-1-Benzopyran-4-One]5,7-Dihydroxy-2-(4-Hydroxyphenyl)-4H-1-Benzopyran-4-One Trans-3,5,4'-Trihydroxystillbene


#14

ive been researching and it seems increasing dopamine is the trick to decreasing prolactin? i dont believe its quite high enough to warrant the use of caber. mucuna puriens, which i have on hand and have been taking the past 2 days, as well as P5P and l-tyrosine are reported by users to help decrease prolactin. also some say vitex. any thoughts?


#15

bump.

no advice guys?

any diet considerations that would increase prolactin or lower testosterone?

edit: just came across this

ESTOFEN® group has demonstrated significant anabolic activity as evidenced by BUN reduction (p<0.05) compared to placebo.
TESTOFEN® group has significant increase in Free Testosterone (p<0.05) compared to Placebo.

TESTOFEN® group has not only compensated the loss of Immunity significantly compared to Placebo (p<0.003), but has also increased immunity.

TESTOFEN® group has shown significant reduction in Serum Creatinine levels (p<0.02) compared to placebo signifying Creatine uptake and recycle in muscle cell.

TESTOFEN® group has shown significant increase in Prolactin compared to Placebo (p<0.04). However this increase is within Physiological limits for men.

TESTOFEN® has shown significant decrease in body fat compared to baseline.

TESTOFEN® has maintained Muscle size despite maintaining weight and reducing fat.