21 Y/O Male - Advice Needed

[quote]tsantos wrote:
Man, I don’t usually follow up just to give kudos but that was a fucking awesome post.[/quote]

Thanks.

[quote]dave670 wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
It’s much better to find a girl who’s beautiful on the inside, and compatible with you as a friend.[/quote]
Agreed.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
If you’re toking regularly for non-medical reasons you’re losing.[/quote]
Ok

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
What sort of women will not go out with you?[/quote]
Any â??womenâ??, period. Early high school girls are all I can mildly interest at this point.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Gorgeous women? [/quote]
Most certainly not, I’m a 4 fish at best, trying to swim among 10s

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
A tall woman? [/quote]
I would expect not.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
And who are you…What characteristics describe you? Are you an ordinary guy? [/quote]
At present I am â??Daveâ?? who works for Joe Jerkoff & Sons Contracting. Definitely not ordinary on the inside, though.

$500 to my name at present

Reddit says no.

Not really, except from my friends.

This is just the beginning of stuff I will have to deal with, it is going to become a familiar scenario; being trapped in sucky position but unable to really backlash because I would lose my job. I’m numb to the abuse itself by now, what bothers me more is that I must give some sort of Caspar Milquetoast vibe, the impression that they can get away with it - â??Give little Dave all the shit you want, he’ll never fight back.â??

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Can’t you simply say to yourself, “I am baby faced. Some other people are too. If some don’t like my looks, then so be it.” [/quote]
It works at a subconscious level, I think. Baby face = low T, with signals to the opposite gender that I’m an inferior quality mate. The blow that that alone poses to my self esteem is huge. And looking childish to boot is just cruel insult to injury to an already painful situation. Obviously I don’t have enough T, if I did I would probably be able to grow a beard like Brian Blessed and thus circumvent the problem.
[/quote]

Dude, you latched onto questions that I posted for general purposes when discussing men who are trying to figure out where they stand in the dating game. I do not expect you to consider my every word or comment on everything I say or throw me compliments or thanks, but I noticed you latched onto question to which you could further rationalize your self-deprecating feelings. Is that a coincidence?

In speaking of your characteristics, you went back to your job. It’s your job, not who you are and it’s not your life. You didn’t list anything good which you say is there. So why didn’t you state your attributes, work and bank account excluded? You didn’t say anything like caring, generous, funny, insightful, or any other positive things to describe someone. Even if a guy is boring, he can find a boring woman.

Babyfaces are a sign of inferior mates?! Are you freaking kidding me? You need to get a grip on reality and what actually goes on in this world. I know of and have seen all sorts of people with partners: fat, rich, buff, poor, nerdy, whatever!

And you need to stay sway from the stupid internet world in which all this inferior mate/alpha/beta crap and other dumb mating theories are so freely discussed by people who have NO damn experience with friends and women. I see this all the time, inexperienced men afraid of their own shadow talking about how this world works.

Low T = babyface? Really? So every guy with a babyface is hypogonadal? At a value of 400, you would not be diagnosed by most docs as hypogonadal. However, my doc doesn’t like to see anyone below that number with symptoms. Repeat: go to a urologist or endocrinologist who knows what they are doing with TRT if you are so concerned. We do not know for sure that you would take on a more rugged appearance if your T were to go from 400 to 600-1000. You don’t.

I understand you need a job, but I can’t wrap my head around why you would be fired with no notice for firing back. Either stand up for yourself and risk getting fired and accept the consequences like a man or look for another place of work. If you’re doing a good job, they are likely NOT going to fire you. Who else are they going to get in the meantime? You are really overestimating and giving way too much credit to people.

Are you implying you posted pictures of yourself on Reddit to see how you are rated with looks? Seriously, stay away from that sort of nonsense. You are opening yourself up to the mistreatment and insults by thousands of resentful losers who are just as confused and womanless as you are.

Just a few things: 1. If you’re posting your picture on reddit, or honestly even visiting that site regularly, I think you’re making a big mistake. Reddit is such garbage.

  1. Early high school girls? Why are you even putting yourself in the position of conversing with underage girls? That’s a MAJOR problem. DON’T DO THIS.

  2. I have no lack of testosterone, and I can grow literally 3-10 hairs on each sideburn. My facial hair is totally patchy (weird bald spots throughout my beard). Can you guess how much this matters? Aside from that though, you don’t even have a baby face. Reddit has obviously fucked with you. Refer to #1 again.

  3. I really, really want to help you. That’s why I keep coming back to this thread. But your total outlook on life (the alpha/beta thing, etc) is so skewed and weird that it’s hard to even feel like we’re having a conversation. You’re using labels and categories that are detrimental to yourself. Drop that nonsense.

  4. Brick and Puff are giving you gold. Take advantage of this. I feel like you’re cherry picking so much of their advice to suit the outlook you already have, rather than adjusting your perception based on what you could be learning here.

Brick, I understand more where you’re coming from. Those were all really good posts. Mostly we just learned different things and reached different conclusions from similar situations. I think I’ll sideline that conversation now, at least while this thread is actually on topic. (That almost never happens in these.)

Dave,

As Brick pointed out, you seem to be identifying with your job quite a bit. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing at this point in life, since it seems to be something relatively stable for you to latch onto. You can use that as a base to grow from.

Are you good at what you do? Are you proud of the work your company does? And if not, are you at least proud of the work that you do for them?

I actually think you’re a lot better off than most people around your age. Even if you don’t necessarily like what you’re doing, you’re actually doing something and adding value to the world in some way, shape or form. You’re not bitching that you can’t find a job because you’re somehow “better” than the jobs that are available.

You’re building a set of skills that are actually useful, and actually worth something to people. If you go branch off into another line of work, you know you can always fall back on this. When you own your own property, you can use those skills. When you meet friends in the future, you can help them out with things that they don’t know how to do. It’s always useful to be able to help your friends out, and vice versa. (Hint: meet friends that know stuff and can do stuff that you can’t.)

Honestly, right now, I’d just stop putting any energy toward women at all. Just stop even thinking about it. You’re basically adding additional stress and discomfort to your life by worrying about it now, especially because you’re also worrying about things you can’t really change.

Find some stuff that you enjoy doing, and also some stuff that helps you grow as a person. Smoking weed isn’t going to help you grow. Playing (most) video games aren’t going to leave you better off when you’re finished with them. Watching a season of Game of Thrones won’t leave you a better person; watching a season of Dirty Jobs might. Go hang out at a climbing gym, meet some people, learn some new skills.

Read a few fiction books for pleasure, then branch off and read some non-fiction in topics you find interesting. If you don’t already have one, get yourself a library card and spend a few hours a week reading stuff. Just wander through the non-fiction aisles and skim the subjects. When something piques your interest, glance through a couple books and pick the one that seems most interesting. Really doesn’t matter the topic. 18th century european art? Books on Bigfoot? Poker strategy? Either way, you’re going to learn something.

Learning stuff is cool, but don’t just stick to this. Get out and do things with other people, face-to-face. You need to grow socially and learn to be around people of all sorts. I really want to suggest you spend some time and learn to be a halfway decent pool player, since it will get you around some interesting people. But there’s a lifestyle you can get sucked into there, namely the drinking, partying, gambling side of it, and I’m not sure that’s the best place for you to be around. Just use your own judgment.

But I mean, there’s lots of other things. If you’re in an outdoorsy area, sign up for a class at an outdoor shop. If you like cooking, there’s cooking classes and stuff. Spend some time looking around on meetup to see what’s around you. There’s a whole lot of options of meeting people with similar interests, even if you’re only kinda interested.

I think you’re in a whole lot better position than you realize.

Take this time to grow, and then you’ll have a lot more to offer in the future.

A lot of great information being put out there. OP have you thought about the military? Many different jobs, starting out everyone is buzz cut and clean shaved baby faces and there are people who really know how to yell at ya!!

dave670 - You’re in good hands here. Really, there are so many things you can do to change your situation for the better. I’d agree with the guys who cautioned you about spending time on forums where bitter angry men rant about women. Negative people will suck the life out of you. If you decide to get into weight training, people here would be happy to help. Many of us keep training logs here (I believe flipcollar, LoRez, and Brick all have logs). I’m sure any one of them would help you.

I’ve found that people have been overwhelmingly generous with their time. You could put up some really spectacular before and after pics in about a year. That would be awesome. If you ask around your hometown you can probably find a local guy to mentor you. It really sounds like you need some positive men in your corner. Depression is very common, and very treatable. So many people here have had to cope with it at some point in their life. Things always get better.

Best to you!
Puff

P.S. It’s been said, but a lot of women hate beards.

LoRez - Nice to see you back. You were missed.

[quote]dave670 wrote:
The only fly in the ointment is when the company goes for lunch and buys me shit 5 days a week.
[/quote]

thats not an excuse to eat like shit man. Just because everyones doing it does not mean you have too…

[quote]scoots2 wrote:
A lot of great information being put out there. OP have you thought about the military? Many different jobs, starting out everyone is buzz cut and clean shaved baby faces and there are people who really know how to yell at ya!![/quote]

Kind of along that line - Some of the young adults from my neighborhood have gone to places like Thailand to teach English. Adventure, do something positive, date cute Asian chicks. We know a girl who went there for two summers and rode a motorbike exploring. A young man from my street is in Mexico right now with the Peace Corps teaching English. He’s a college grad though so I don’t know what their requirements are. Some of the church groups from here in SoCal go down to Baja for short-term construction projects, like building a small school.

Thanks for some of the compliments here.

One of the reasons I am so compelled to post here is because the OP speaks in a way that I used to when I was depressed and lonely: blind to reason, tunnel visioned, and with a constant need for rationalizing what is happening (eg, I can’t get a woman and here’s proof why), even though the feelings have little basis in reality.

So the OP doesn’t fool me!

It takes one to know one. :slight_smile:

Thanks to all for the help. I appreciate it.

[quote]Brickhead wrote:
And you need to stay sway from the stupid internet world in which all this inferior mate/alpha/beta crap and other dumb mating theories are so freely discussed by people who have NO damn experience with friends and women. I see this all the time, inexperienced men afraid of their own shadow talking about how this world works. [/quote]
Agreed. Much (read: most) of the Internet is BS, this was a mistake on my part.

[quote]Brickhead wrote:
We do not know for sure that you would take on a more rugged appearance if your T were to go from 400 to 600-1000. You don’t. [/quote]
I have a high degree of subcutaneous facial fat, also known as baby fat. Testosterone tends to reduce this; that’s the facial characteristic I am basing my assumption of low T on.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Are you good at what you do? Are you proud of the work your company does? And if not, are you at least proud of the work that you do for them? [/quote]
I get screamed at every single day that I am not doing good enough, however I do not get fired. Basically what this translates to is that I am doing a good enough job, the verbal abuse is just a given threshold. I work my ass off, I don’t worry a minute about not working hard enough. But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Even if you don’t necessarily like what you’re doing, you’re actually doing something and adding value to the world in some way, shape or form.[/quote]
I think really it’s just building myself, to be honest. The more shit I take, the harder I work, the more I slave away day after day, I feel like I’m building a fire inside that makes me respect myself a little bit more each day. It’s brutal but it is brainwashing me into self respect, gradually.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Honestly, right now, I’d just stop putting any energy toward women at all. Just stop even thinking about it. You’re basically adding additional stress and discomfort to your life by worrying about it now, especially because you’re also worrying about things you can’t really change. [/quote]
Sadly I have to agree. A lot of girls my age are probably still confused about what they want in a guy, to the point that it could make my life unbearable trying to match those criteria. I just need to become a man, and then I can go after WOMEN who, like me by that time, will be more settled.

[quote]scoots2:
OP have you thought about the military?[/quote]
I’ve thought about it. My gut feeling is that I would end up discharged like Jimi Hendrix after about a year, and I don’t even know that I would be lucky enough to have done so with an hononrable discharge.

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Depression is very common, and very treatable. So many people here have had to cope with it at some point in their life. Things always get better. [/quote]
Thanks, I really hope so. I don’t know if it’s possible to be a young man and not be depressed at one time or another. Life is so fucking confusing at this point.

[quote]gaintrain wrote:
thats not an excuse to eat like shit man. Just because everyones doing it does not mean you have too… [/quote]
oshit I guess I’m a fatass olol

Srs tho, isn’t it interesting that it’s so many of the dudes you see in the trades (manual labor every day) who end up obese despite all they do? I think it’s because they justify shitty diet and constant overeating with their activity, a severe overestimation of their daily burn.

I’m the skinniest guy on my crew

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]dave670 wrote:

But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me.
[/quote]

As the owner and manager of a construction company this says all I need to know about you. I’ve had losers like you work for me in the past.

Keep on this track as long as you want to wear your Loser uniform in this life in all the things you endeavor to do, Mr. Sensitive, Creative Guy.[/quote]
Lol! This is why I didn’t want to give him any more advice. I’ve had this kind of employees as well. The soft approach never works. People like him really need to hit rock bottom before they wake up and decide to stop their nonsense.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]dave670 wrote:

But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me.
[/quote]

As the owner and manager of a construction company this says all I need to know about you. [/quote]

This struck me as well. OP, you may have a hormone problem, may have a drug problem and may have a self-esteem/depression problem. However you definitely have an attitude problem.

ANY job you choose to do in exchange for compensation is something you sign you name to, metaphorically speaking. It is important by virtue of the fact that you have agreed to do it. Doing it well is a point of pride, regardless of how menial you may (erroneously) perceive it to be. If you got a job twirling a sign at the side of the road for a pizza joint it would behoove you to become the best damn pizza sign twirler that ever was and that is something to be proud of.

Your entire attitude/world view is in need of an overhaul. No amount of facial hair will make any difference until you get your head around a few things. At least you are beginning to ask questions…

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]dave670 wrote:

But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me.
[/quote]

As the owner and manager of a construction company this says all I need to know about you. I’ve had losers like you work for me in the past.

Keep on this track as long as you want to wear your Loser uniform in this life in all the things you endeavor to do, Mr. Sensitive, Creative Guy.[/quote]
Lol! This is why I didn’t want to give him any more advice. I’ve had this kind of employees as well. The soft approach never works. People like him really need to hit rock bottom before they wake up and decide to stop their nonsense.[/quote]

I can picture him right now. Fucking pothead slouching around, thinking he’s working sooooooooo hard when he’s probably the crew slacker that always has to be yelled at to keep his ass in gear and even then it’s probably first gear.

I’ve seen it over and over again.[/quote]

but his poetry is the sweetest, most lyrical of any man on the site.

How he’s not managed to find a good woman by now I’ll never know

[quote]pushharder wrote:

As the owner and manager of a construction company this says all I need to know about you. I’ve had losers like you work for me in the past.

Keep on this track as long as you want to wear your Loser uniform in this life in all the things you endeavor to do, Mr. Sensitive, Creative Guy.[/quote]
Cool

[quote]Yogi wrote:

but his poetry is the sweetest, most lyrical of any man on the site.

How he’s not managed to find a good woman by now I’ll never know
[/quote]
Why should they care about sweet poetry when they can have a massive, hard guy who has a stable job at the top of the fucking ladder?

Listen to that and tell how much of that isn’t true.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
He needs him some Zig Ziglar tutorin’ goin’ on his life.[/quote]

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]dave670 wrote:

But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me.
[/quote]

As the owner and manager of a construction company this says all I need to know about you. [/quote]

This struck me as well. OP, you may have a hormone problem, may have a drug problem and may have a self-esteem/depression problem. However you definitely have an attitude problem.

ANY job you choose to do in exchange for compensation is something you sign you name to, metaphorically speaking. It is important by virtue of the fact that you have agreed to do it. Doing it well is a point of pride, regardless of how menial you may (erroneously) perceive it to be. If you got a job twirling a sign at the side of the road for a pizza joint it would behoove you to become the best damn pizza sign twirler that ever was and that is something to be proud of.

Your entire attitude/world view is in need of an overhaul. No amount of facial hair will make any difference until you get your head around a few things. At least you are beginning to ask questions…[/quote]

I agree with this, and am offended for Push and the others here who’ve been labeled “brutish and boorish.”

I will also say that my boyfriend, an engineer, worked his way through college working construction and does brutish, boorish work as a hobby. He cuts and splits our firewood, which comes from trees he takes down as he builds and improves a road up the mountain he owns. We bought a house together a year ago and he has replumbed much of it, rewired some of it, regraded part of the yard, and together we have installed a patio and front walkway, and added a stone wall. Soon we’ll start tearing down for an add-on. I can’t even begin to describe how sexy I find him when he’s doing this brutish, boorish shit, and my friends are very open about their envy. Men who can do things are sexy. (Please all note that I am once again resisting the urge to post pics of Hockey, despite being so sexy when doing brutish shit.)

I am under the impression that he finds me just as sexy when I’m wearing my “worker-guy clothes” and throwing firewood into the truck, struggling to move big rocks, or manning the backhoe. Maybe this wouldn’t be the case if I were a laborer by trade, but I’m not. I’m a slender, bookish therapist. A sensitive, creative type. I don’t feel brutish or boorish at all when working hard, any more than I do when I’m dripping sweat and wiping my nose on my shoulder while I work out. I feel strong and dedicated and like I’m building aspects of myself that will stand me in good stead in all arenas of my life.

People who can do things are sexy. People who do them well and cheerfully are delightful and tend to be sought out as companions and more.

Oh - and I get scolded (though not yelled at) as a low-ranking worker guy, too. One night he woke me talking in his sleep. He said, really forcefully: “I will not tolerate a curved line.” Who do you imagine he was talking to? I’m thinking’ it was me. That’s life! Meanwhile, I help him understand the finer points of bed-making and other such. I’m sure my tone gets forceful sometimes, too.