21 Y/O Male - Advice Needed

Off Topic
181

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]dave670 wrote:

But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me.
[/quote]

As the owner and manager of a construction company this says all I need to know about you. [/quote]

This struck me as well. OP, you may have a hormone problem, may have a drug problem and may have a self-esteem/depression problem. However you definitely have an attitude problem.

ANY job you choose to do in exchange for compensation is something you sign you name to, metaphorically speaking. It is important by virtue of the fact that you have agreed to do it. Doing it well is a point of pride, regardless of how menial you may (erroneously) perceive it to be. If you got a job twirling a sign at the side of the road for a pizza joint it would behoove you to become the best damn pizza sign twirler that ever was and that is something to be proud of.

Your entire attitude/world view is in need of an overhaul. No amount of facial hair will make any difference until you get your head around a few things. At least you are beginning to ask questions…[/quote]

I agree with this, and am offended for Push and the others here who’ve been labeled “brutish and boorish.”

I will also say that my boyfriend, an engineer, worked his way through college working construction and does brutish, boorish work as a hobby. He cuts and splits our firewood, which comes from trees he takes down as he builds and improves a road up the mountain he owns. We bought a house together a year ago and he has replumbed much of it, rewired some of it, regraded part of the yard, and together we have installed a patio and front walkway, and added a stone wall. Soon we’ll start tearing down for an add-on. I can’t even begin to describe how sexy I find him when he’s doing this brutish, boorish shit, and my friends are very open about their envy. Men who can do things are sexy. (Please all note that I am once again resisting the urge to post pics of Hockey, despite being so sexy when doing brutish shit.)

I am under the impression that he finds me just as sexy when I’m wearing my “worker-guy clothes” and throwing firewood into the truck, struggling to move big rocks, or manning the backhoe. Maybe this wouldn’t be the case if I were a laborer by trade, but I’m not. I’m a slender, bookish therapist. A sensitive, creative type. I don’t feel brutish or boorish at all when working hard, any more than I do when I’m dripping sweat and wiping my nose on my shoulder while I work out. I feel strong and dedicated and like I’m building aspects of myself that will stand me in good stead in all arenas of my life.

People who can do things are sexy. People who do them well and cheerfully are delightful and tend to be sought out as companions and more.

Oh - and I get scolded (though not yelled at) as a low-ranking worker guy, too. One night he woke me talking in his sleep. He said, really forcefully: “I will not tolerate a curved line.” Who do you imagine he was talking to? I’m thinking’ it was me. That’s life! Meanwhile, I help him understand the finer points of bed-making and other such. I’m sure my tone gets forceful sometimes, too.

[/quote]

damn, girl. I actually think I fancy your boyfriend a bit. You’re one lucky lady!

182

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]dave670 wrote:

But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me.
[/quote]

As the owner and manager of a construction company this says all I need to know about you. [/quote]

This struck me as well. OP, you may have a hormone problem, may have a drug problem and may have a self-esteem/depression problem. However you definitely have an attitude problem.

ANY job you choose to do in exchange for compensation is something you sign you name to, metaphorically speaking. It is important by virtue of the fact that you have agreed to do it. Doing it well is a point of pride, regardless of how menial you may (erroneously) perceive it to be. If you got a job twirling a sign at the side of the road for a pizza joint it would behoove you to become the best damn pizza sign twirler that ever was and that is something to be proud of.

Your entire attitude/world view is in need of an overhaul. No amount of facial hair will make any difference until you get your head around a few things. At least you are beginning to ask questions…[/quote]

I agree with this, and am offended for Push and the others here who’ve been labeled “brutish and boorish.”

I will also say that my boyfriend, an engineer, worked his way through college working construction and does brutish, boorish work as a hobby. He cuts and splits our firewood, which comes from trees he takes down as he builds and improves a road up the mountain he owns. We bought a house together a year ago and he has replumbed much of it, rewired some of it, regraded part of the yard, and together we have installed a patio and front walkway, and added a stone wall. Soon we’ll start tearing down for an add-on. I can’t even begin to describe how sexy I find him when he’s doing this brutish, boorish shit, and my friends are very open about their envy. Men who can do things are sexy. (Please all note that I am once again resisting the urge to post pics of Hockey, despite being so sexy when doing brutish shit.)

I am under the impression that he finds me just as sexy when I’m wearing my “worker-guy clothes” and throwing firewood into the truck, struggling to move big rocks, or manning the backhoe. Maybe this wouldn’t be the case if I were a laborer by trade, but I’m not. I’m a slender, bookish therapist. A sensitive, creative type. I don’t feel brutish or boorish at all when working hard, any more than I do when I’m dripping sweat and wiping my nose on my shoulder while I work out. I feel strong and dedicated and like I’m building aspects of myself that will stand me in good stead in all arenas of my life.

People who can do things are sexy. People who do them well and cheerfully are delightful and tend to be sought out as companions and more.

Oh - and I get scolded (though not yelled at) as a low-ranking worker guy, too. One night he woke me talking in his sleep. He said, really forcefully: “I will not tolerate a curved line.” Who do you imagine he was talking to? I’m thinking’ it was me. That’s life! Meanwhile, I help him understand the finer points of bed-making and other such. I’m sure my tone gets forceful sometimes, too.

[/quote]

damn, girl. I actually think I fancy your boyfriend a bit. You’re one lucky lady!
[/quote]

Yep. Hockey sounds pretty doable :wink:

183

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]dave670 wrote:

But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me.
[/quote]

As the owner and manager of a construction company this says all I need to know about you. I’ve had losers like you work for me in the past.

Keep on this track as long as you want to wear your Loser uniform in this life in all the things you endeavor to do, Mr. Sensitive, Creative Guy.[/quote]

Very much agreed. And I find this position to be fucking offensive to all the men and women who work their asses off to feed their families. It doesn’t ‘appeal’ to you? You’d rather be in an air conditioned room sitting on bean bags with a bunch of other pot smokers writing screen plays or the next great American novel or some shit?

Here’s the thing about creative people. THEY CREATE. And creation involves A LOT of work. . If you’re not creating, you’re not creative, by definition. I know so many people who describe themselves this way, but don’t really do anything. They dabble in a few things, but when it comes to actually doing things, they fall short. On the other hand, I’m very close to the artist community in Dallas. The real artists here are constantly working. Painting/sculpture is a time consuming, physical task. Mental creativity is positively useless if not applied to the world around you. And using your job as an excuse for not having a creative outlet is really shitty. My job allows for essentially no creativity, outside of the occasional weird problems that may come up that I have to think my way through. On top of this, I have a young family that requires much of my time away from work. And yet I still find ample time to apply myself to things I want to do, many of them very creative. A close friend of mine is successful enough in the art world to have an agent and has produced a number of gallery shows. He works in IT during the day, and gives nearly all of his time outside of work to his craft. He sells his paintings for thousands of dollars each. And I’ve never heard him complain about his day job. Not once. And he also has a wife/young child at home.

I think you have a shitty work ethic. The time you’re spending smoking pot and thinking about creative things is time you’re not spending creating. Consider that.

184

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

I think you have a shitty work ethic. The time you’re spending smoking pot and thinking about creative things is time you’re not spending creating. Consider that.[/quote]

This. And honestly, I think you’re just here, enjoying the attention. 150+ replies later and you’re still undecided and you’ve ONLY posted on this thread. Maybe if you really desire change, start by actually DOING SOMETHING. I thought maybe you would’ve at least started a training log and maybe hit the gym a few times already but apparently I’m wrong. This was posted on the 4th of October. It’s been more than a month, what have you done so far to better yourself?

Maybe I’m a dickhead but part of me thinks we should just let you live your miserable life, not everyone has what it takes to be a winner, you certainly don’t. If everyone’s a winner, no one is.

185

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]dave670 wrote:

But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me.
[/quote]

As the owner and manager of a construction company this says all I need to know about you. [/quote]

This struck me as well. OP, you may have a hormone problem, may have a drug problem and may have a self-esteem/depression problem. However you definitely have an attitude problem.

ANY job you choose to do in exchange for compensation is something you sign you name to, metaphorically speaking. It is important by virtue of the fact that you have agreed to do it. Doing it well is a point of pride, regardless of how menial you may (erroneously) perceive it to be. If you got a job twirling a sign at the side of the road for a pizza joint it would behoove you to become the best damn pizza sign twirler that ever was and that is something to be proud of.

Your entire attitude/world view is in need of an overhaul. No amount of facial hair will make any difference until you get your head around a few things. At least you are beginning to ask questions…[/quote]

I agree with this, and am offended for Push and the others here who’ve been labeled “brutish and boorish.”

I will also say that my boyfriend, an engineer, worked his way through college working construction and does brutish, boorish work as a hobby. He cuts and splits our firewood, which comes from trees he takes down as he builds and improves a road up the mountain he owns. We bought a house together a year ago and he has replumbed much of it, rewired some of it, regraded part of the yard, and together we have installed a patio and front walkway, and added a stone wall. Soon we’ll start tearing down for an add-on. I can’t even begin to describe how sexy I find him when he’s doing this brutish, boorish shit, and my friends are very open about their envy. Men who can do things are sexy. (Please all note that I am once again resisting the urge to post pics of Hockey, despite being so sexy when doing brutish shit.)

I am under the impression that he finds me just as sexy when I’m wearing my “worker-guy clothes” and throwing firewood into the truck, struggling to move big rocks, or manning the backhoe. Maybe this wouldn’t be the case if I were a laborer by trade, but I’m not. I’m a slender, bookish therapist. A sensitive, creative type. I don’t feel brutish or boorish at all when working hard, any more than I do when I’m dripping sweat and wiping my nose on my shoulder while I work out. I feel strong and dedicated and like I’m building aspects of myself that will stand me in good stead in all arenas of my life.

People who can do things are sexy. People who do them well and cheerfully are delightful and tend to be sought out as companions and more.

Oh - and I get scolded (though not yelled at) as a low-ranking worker guy, too. One night he woke me talking in his sleep. He said, really forcefully: “I will not tolerate a curved line.” Who do you imagine he was talking to? I’m thinking’ it was me. That’s life! Meanwhile, I help him understand the finer points of bed-making and other such. I’m sure my tone gets forceful sometimes, too.

[/quote]

damn, girl. I actually think I fancy your boyfriend a bit. You’re one lucky lady!
[/quote]

Yep. Hockey sounds pretty doable ;)[/quote]

Hahaha, maybe I should post a pic.

186

Sorry folks. I’ve come to the inescapable conclusion that I just suck. I’m sorry for having wasted your time. I can’t explain the way I feel, and the consensus seems to be that I am wrong anyway; as I am told this 8 hours a day already, it does not come as a surprise.

Peace out.

189

[quote]dave670 wrote:
Sorry folks. I’ve come to the inescapable conclusion that I just suck. I’m sorry for having wasted your time. I can’t explain the way I feel, and the consensus seems to be that I am wrong anyway; as I am told this 8 hours a day already, it does not come as a surprise.

Peace out. [/quote]

sounds like you’re taking what you want to take from this thread. That’s not how I read it, but your decisions are your own.

190

[quote]dave670 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Are you good at what you do? Are you proud of the work your company does? And if not, are you at least proud of the work that you do for them? [/quote]
I get screamed at every single day that I am not doing good enough, however I do not get fired. Basically what this translates to is that I am doing a good enough job, the verbal abuse is just a given threshold. I work my ass off, I don’t worry a minute about not working hard enough. But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me. [/quote]

I didn’t ask if you were working hard enough. I asked if you were good at what you do. Based on what you just said, it doesn’t sound like you are.

You have control over the quality of work you do. Like batman said above, you should strive to do your best job, no matter how menial the work is. Do your best work, be proud of that work, and do that despite all the rest of the bullshit. I hate sweeping floors, but when I have to, I am fucking awesome at it. That’s the attitude you need to take.

In most situations, most of the time, you’re only as valuable to people as what you offer them. If you offer nothing of value to them, you are literally worthless to them. Not figuratively worthless, but literally worthless.

And if you’re like that most of the time, with most people, you’re going to eventually pick up on the fact that people think you’re worthless. And if you’re weak-willed, you’re going to start believing that you’re actually worthless.

So to boil that down:

  1. figure out how to add more value in the situations you’re already in. That means, thinking through what needs to be done, and what you can do to make that happen, and then doing it. And thinking about what people want, and giving them that. Those may or may not be the same.
  2. put yourself into more situations where you can more easily add value, that comes naturally to you. (e.g., play an instrument in a band; help a friend edit a book they’re writing; or whatever)
  3. work on your sense of self and your willpower

People can be boorish or brutish; the work is not. Don’t get the two confused.

Now, obviously, certain people are drawn to certain jobs, and as people grow, they often change what they do, but just because “most people who do X job are like Y”, doesn’t mean the job is “Y”, and it doesn’t mean all people are “Y”, and most importantly, it doesn’t mean you have to be like “Y” just because you’re doing “X”.

Even the most refined artistic pursuits rely on layers and layers of menial, tedious, physical work. The most prized woods for making the finest musical instruments in the world still rely on someone actually felling a tree, hauling it in, chopping it up, and lots and lots and lots of menial physical work later, getting it to a point where it’s actually an instrument. Nevermind the mining and refining for the metals, or the divers who source the inlays.

It’s not like chopping down a tree is any different if you’re building a Steinway or Stradivarius out of it than if you’re building anything else.

[quote]dave670 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Even if you don’t necessarily like what you’re doing, you’re actually doing something and adding value to the world in some way, shape or form.[/quote]
I think really it’s just building myself, to be honest. The more shit I take, the harder I work, the more I slave away day after day, I feel like I’m building a fire inside that makes me respect myself a little bit more each day. It’s brutal but it is brainwashing me into self respect, gradually. [/quote]
You’re doing it wrong.

That’s not self-respect. That’s anger and denial. Neither are particularly helpful.

The more shit you take, the more effort you should put into figuring out how to get less shit flung at you in the first place. Figure out how to do things better. Or find another job.

All you’re doing is making things worth for yourself and for them.

191

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
… blind to reason, tunnel visioned, and with a constant need for rationalizing what is happening…
[/quote]

This.

And as flipcollar just said, you’re taking what you want from this thread. Go back and look at all the encouragement and constructive advice, and then look what you are doing to change your situation.

BTW, I’m pretty sure I have really low T and can’t grow a beard either. It hasn’t been so bad. :wink:

Really, you’re only 21. A lot of people don’t have their crap together at that age. Don’t use this thread as another excuse to believe that the world is against you.

192

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]dave670 wrote:

But I take no pride in the company’s work as a whole. As I’ve said, I’m a sensitive creative guy. Boorish, brutish shit like what we do doesn’t appeal to me.
[/quote]

As the owner and manager of a construction company this says all I need to know about you. I’ve had losers like you work for me in the past.

Keep on this track as long as you want to wear your Loser uniform in this life in all the things you endeavor to do, Mr. Sensitive, Creative Guy.[/quote]

Very much agreed. And I find this position to be fucking offensive to all the men and women who work their asses off to feed their families. It doesn’t ‘appeal’ to you? You’d rather be in an air conditioned room sitting on bean bags with a bunch of other pot smokers writing screen plays or the next great American novel or some shit?[/quote]

+1. Regardless of whether someone likes their job or not, they should take pride in their work because that is a reflection of themselves, not the business.

193

LOL at all the people who are getting offended for other people at the OP’s labeling of physical work as “brutish and boorish”. Seriously, people, you are getting offended for somebody else because some whiny troll kid who describes himself as a “sensitive, creative” type is feeling butthurt about his job. Read the last sentence again and tell me how fucking ridiculous it sounds. When this happens on a website called “Testosterone Nation”, it sure as shit is an indication that Western culture is devolving into one of hypersensitivity.

194

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
LOL at all the people who are getting offended for other people at the OP’s labeling of physical work as “brutish and boorish”. Seriously, people, you are getting offended for somebody else because some whiny troll kid who describes himself as a “sensitive, creative” type is feeling butthurt about his job. Read the last sentence again and tell me how fucking ridiculous it sounds. When this happens on a website called “Testosterone Nation”, it sure as shit is an indication that Western culture is devolving into one of hypersensitivity.[/quote]

I’m not actually offended, as I’m pretty comfortable with who I am… I just thought the statement in and of itself was an offensive one. Does that make sense? Maybe it doesn’t. Maybe my word choice sucks. I think what I really mean is that his outlook is just garbage. He’s seeing the world in very strange ways that I simply can’t relate to. And he’s stubborn as a fucking mule. But don’t worry, the OP’s not hurting my feelings. I’m frustrated that there’s nothing I can do to help him, but I’m entering the acceptance stage now.

195

[quote]dave670 wrote:

Why should they care about sweet poetry when they can have a massive, hard guy who has a stable job at the top of the fucking ladder?

Listen to that and tell how much of that isn’t true. [/quote]

That is a twisted, foul, depressing piece of crap. Synopsis: Either you can kill yourself, or create a fake identity as a hardened, callous construction worker-type because chicks don’t like nice men? This crap is poison. Putting it up there makes me think you just wanted to troll men who you hoped to find were all fake, muscular bullies. Or maybe you’re just disappointed that your construction job hasn’t turned you into a big muscular guy who can manipulate women? Either way, this pseudo-intellectual “deep” poetry is not going to help. Stay away from this kind of dark, twisted garbage.

196

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
LOL at all the people who are getting offended for other people at the OP’s labeling of physical work as “brutish and boorish”. Seriously, people, you are getting offended for somebody else because some whiny troll kid who describes himself as a “sensitive, creative” type is feeling butthurt about his job. Read the last sentence again and tell me how fucking ridiculous it sounds. When this happens on a website called “Testosterone Nation”, it sure as shit is an indication that Western culture is devolving into one of hypersensitivity.[/quote]

Well, LOL at your concern over the matter of who is offended at what.

At any rate, I don’t think anyone here is as much feeling deep offense over the OP’s viewpoint as suggesting that his posts indicate an attitude that should perhaps be reconsidered - for his own sake, not their own.

198

As a boorish brute I am relieved that this dave twat doesn’t count himself among my ranks.

199

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]dave670 wrote:

Why should they care about sweet poetry when they can have a massive, hard guy who has a stable job at the top of the fucking ladder?

Listen to that and tell how much of that isn’t true. [/quote]

That is a twisted, foul, depressing piece of crap. Synopsis: Either you can kill yourself, or create a fake identity as a hardened, callous construction worker-type because chicks don’t like nice men? This crap is poison. Putting it up there makes me think you just wanted to troll men who you hoped to find were all fake, muscular bullies. Or maybe you’re just disappointed that your construction job hasn’t turned you into a big muscular guy who can manipulate women? Either way, this pseudo-intellectual “deep” poetry is not going to help. Stay away from this kind of dark, twisted garbage. [/quote]
Spot on.

And it’s funny how these self-professed sensitive, deep thinking types are usually the ones passing the most superficial judgements on others.

200

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
As a boorish brute I am relieved that this dave twat doesn’t count himself among my ranks.
[/quote]

At least you have an artist’s eye for appliances. You got the red coffee maker, right?