T Nation

20yr, Post Cycle Low Test, High Prolactin


#1

First time posting in the TRT forum (didnt think I'd ever need to).

Little background info:
Im a medical student studying to be an endocrinologist (ironic).
The title pretty much sums up whats happened.
I did a 13 week cycle of tren and test, I know 13 weeks of tren is a bad idea.
It looked like this:

Wk 1-7 Tri-Test 600mg/wk
Wk 1-7 Tri Tren 600mg/wk (fluctuated but went up to 900mg/wk)
Wk 3-7 Masteron prop 300mg/wk
Wk 7-13 Test Prop 350mg/wk
Wk 7-13 Tren Ace 350mg/wk
Wk 7-13 Winstrol 350mg/wk
Adex (pharm grade) was used throughout at .5mg EOD.
Started PCT 4 days after test prop jab, PCT was clomid 100/50/50 and nolva 20/20/20/20.

Since then I have tried the hCG approach injecting 500iu E3D or so, didnt work.
Tried Bromocriptine at 5mg E3D, made me feel like I was dead for the whole day.
Same with cabergoline.
Upon BBB's recommendation I also tried Selegiline, didnt work.
I also tried a SERM PCT which didnt work.

I had 2 blood tests done through the NHS, one in FEB and one in MAY of this year.
The results are as follows:
February Test....

Prolactin = 97 mu/L (56-278)
Oestradiol = 81 pmol/L (73-275)
Serum Testosterone = 5.12 nmol/L (6.1-27.1)
FSH = 0.3 u/L (0.0-19.0)
LH = 0.4 u/L (1.2-8.6)

May Test....

Prolactin = 338 mu/L
Serum Testosterone = 5.44 nmol/L
LH = 1.3 u/L
FSH = Dont know but its normal now

As you can see, testosterone has only increased by a fraction. Prolactin has nearly tripled.
The explanation for the increase in prolactin was the discontinuation of the Bromo which I was using prior to the february test.

My libido is currently very very low, erections are ok but not how they should be for a 20 year old.
I was referred to an endocrinologist, they just sent me for more blood tests and I am due back there in 2 weeks on the 14th of July to discuss my May blood test. All they are going to say is give it time.

What do you guys suggest I do to get my libido back?


#2

Could be E2-related. You need to get the E2 in check as well as the prolactin. How long have you been finished with PCT?


#3

[quote]catfish74 wrote:
Could be E2-related. You need to get the E2 in check as well as the prolactin. How long have you been finished with PCT?[/quote]

Its a little low, but probably because of the low T–everything else is stemming from that…actually, the cause is the lack of LH/FSH to produce T…

Singh, it looks like your pituitary didn’t recover after your cycle…are you sure the nolva you were running for PCT was legit?

I would likely try another PCT and see how LH/FSH respond…try to time your bloodwork with the end of the PCT–you should see a marked increase…if not, something else is wrong and I would be at a loss for answers, but no need to consider that unless we end up in that situation

As far as prolactin, I don’t suppose you have a pre-AAS baseline? Did abstain from masturbating, sex, and playing with babies/puppies 12 hours or so before the test?


#4

Oppps just saw that you used clomid and nolva for PCT…any particular reason why instead of just going with one? Are you sure they are legit (if they were from the same supplier)?

It also looks like your LH and FSH are on the right track–it may just be slower to recover than normal…

I am almost inclined to take back my previous advice and agree with the doc to wait it out…I probably wouldn’t wait TOO long but your pituitar ydoes show an upward trend…hopefully the downstream will follow…


#5

My theory is that with all the shit you have been taking it suppressed your pituitary…which follows why both prolactin and your fsh/lh rose together. I think the prolactin rise will be temporary unless you are taking dopamine antagonists or have a tumor or something like that (which you most likely don’t have). I would suggest not doing ANYTHING…get new tests and see where your hormones are at now. Go cold turkey, don’t take ANY PHARMACEUTICALS for a month. If your fsh/lh are low after that and so is testosterone then go on clomid or something like that to jump start your pituitary for a short cycle and then see where you are. I mean it, NO PHARMACEUTICALS. That may be difficult for you!


#6

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Oppps just saw that you used clomid and nolva for PCT…any particular reason why instead of just going with one? Are you sure they are legit (if they were from the same supplier)?

It also looks like your LH and FSH are on the right track–it may just be slower to recover than normal…

I am almost inclined to take back my previous advice and agree with the doc to wait it out…I probably wouldn’t wait TOO long but your pituitar ydoes show an upward trend…hopefully the downstream will follow…[/quote]

Wait it out… I cant afford to wait it out as I will be starting my final year of my medicine degree and I cannot deal with this lethargy and depression.
The nolva and clomid were legit, and I have tried another PCT which didnt work :frowning:
In regards to the prolactin numbers, haha yes I did not masturbate (come on, i WISH i was in the mood to masturbate) or any such activity. I believe that was my true prolactin level even for my first test but was suppressed due to the Bromo.
I have scheduled myself (yes, scheduled myself, I can do things like that :slight_smile: ) for an MRI to rule out a prolactinoma which may be on my pituitary causing it to disfunction in its hormone output. I have also set up another blood test for myself, will be test for everything again. I want to wait a week before I get it done though as I took Cabergoline this week to see if it helped, it didnt. I want some time for my prolactin levels to rise back to what they should be before I get it done.
Im thinking to do it a couple of days before my Endo appointment.

I am too young to be fucking about like this. My only conclusion could be that the Tri-Tren was in fact Deca.


#7

[quote]catfish74 wrote:
Could be E2-related. You need to get the E2 in check as well as the prolactin. How long have you been finished with PCT?[/quote]

My new PCT finished around 2 months ago. My initial PCT finished around 6 months ago.


#8

[quote]Retinoid wrote:
My theory is that with all the shit you have been taking it suppressed your pituitary…which follows why both prolactin and your fsh/lh rose together. I think the prolactin rise will be temporary unless you are taking dopamine antagonists or have a tumor or something like that (which you most likely don’t have). I would suggest not doing ANYTHING…get new tests and see where your hormones are at now. Go cold turkey, don’t take ANY PHARMACEUTICALS for a month. If your fsh/lh are low after that and so is testosterone then go on clomid or something like that to jump start your pituitary for a short cycle and then see where you are. I mean it, NO PHARMACEUTICALS. That may be difficult for you![/quote]

My prolactin rose due to the discontinuation of Bromocriptine.
My hormones feel to be in the same state if not worse. Always tired, dont feel like having sex etc. I can achieve an erection though upon stimulation, but my recovery time after ejactulation is around 2 days.
I havent taken anything for sometime except cabergoline for 2 days and nolva here and there when I felt my nips getting puffy.


#9

I feel you on not wanting to wait–I know the feeling of being depressed and lethargic…I had been dealing with that since my surgery a few months ago…once I finally started TRT, it was like a breathe of fresh air finally and things immediately started looking up…

But I dont know what to tell you other than that man…these kinds of things take time and I don’t know what other options you would have…its good that you are being proactive with the MRI to rule out pituitary tumors, but its highly unlikely the cause since you were good before your cycle…

Good luck


#10

You can always just do testosterone if you absolutely cannot wait but everything is pointing to your cycle causing this which is why I don’t think it is necessary but to be totally off all pharmaceuticals. You don’t even really need to be on a dopamine agonist for prolactin as your prolactin isn’t that high. It is elevated but not nearly as high as people who usually go on those drugs. But if you prefer to not give your body time to recover go take testosterone through a doctor so you know you are getting legitimate stuff. My suggestion is to wait…You must be in another country if you are almost done with med school at 20 here you would be like 25-26.

People with pituitary tumors secreting prolactin have prolactin levels many times the normal range usually.


#11

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I feel you on not wanting to wait–I know the feeling of being depressed and lethargic…I had been dealing with that since my surgery a few months ago…once I finally started TRT, it was like a breathe of fresh air finally and things immediately started looking up…

But I dont know what to tell you other than that man…these kinds of things take time and I don’t know what other options you would have…its good that you are being proactive with the MRI to rule out pituitary tumors, but its highly unlikely the cause since you were good before your cycle…

Good luck[/quote]

At least you can liase with my situation. Its such a bitch wanting to sleep all day. And yes like you said, pituitary tumour is highly unlikely as I never suffered from low T or high prolactin prior to my cycle.

What do you think about my theory of the tri-tren being deca? Does it change anything?


#12

[quote]Retinoid wrote:
You can always just do testosterone if you absolutely cannot wait but everything is pointing to your cycle causing this which is why I don’t think it is necessary but to be totally off all pharmaceuticals. You don’t even really need to be on a dopamine agonist for prolactin as your prolactin isn’t that high. It is elevated but not nearly as high as people who usually go on those drugs. But if you prefer to not give your body time to recover go take testosterone through a doctor so you know you are getting legitimate stuff. My suggestion is to wait…You must be in another country if you are almost done with med school at 20 here you would be like 25-26.

People with pituitary tumors secreting prolactin have prolactin levels many times the normal range usually.[/quote]

Yeah I did mention the NHS before, NHS is only the UK. Im in England.
I want to start on testosterone but then I dont, I want my normal testosterone to recover. I know what you mean about my prolactin levels being too low for a tumour but Im getting the MRI done just because its no hassle for me.
I think I am going to wait it out like you and VTBalla have suggested, just depends on how LONG to wait really. Cant really wait too long, I mean its been 7 months already.


#13

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

What do you think about my theory of the tri-tren being deca? Does it change anything?[/quote]

Its possible…I know deca can do some really nasty stuff, especially if you are taking high doses like you thought when you had tren…

Honestly though mate, I think a part of this could have to do with the age you started AAS…you are 20 now, and this was over 7 months ago, so you couldn’t have been much past 19 if any when doing it…

I have no idea what your body maturation was before deciding to use, but most people do not have a fully developed HPTA at that age…in your case, recovery may just be much slower because you temporarily shut down a still developing hormone loop…

In your case, and if you really can’t stand to wait it out much longer, then short term TRT may be an option for you to consider…personally, I wouldn’t do that unless I was literally suicidal, but that is a decison you will have to consider heavily the pros and cons…

If you take that route, I would absolutely use hcg to keep the testes functioning, and only take a true TRT dose of 100 mg/week or so…adex obviously…

If you go through a doc of the NHS, from experiences I have read from others, you most likely will not have this reasonable protocol as an option…


#14

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

What do you think about my theory of the tri-tren being deca? Does it change anything?[/quote]

Its possible…I know deca can do some really nasty stuff, especially if you are taking high doses like you thought when you had tren…

Honestly though mate, I think a part of this could have to do with the age you started AAS…you are 20 now, and this was over 7 months ago, so you couldn’t have been much past 19 if any when doing it…

I have no idea what your body maturation was before deciding to use, but most people do not have a fully developed HPTA at that age…in your case, recovery may just be much slower because you temporarily shut down a still developing hormone loop…

In your case, and if you really can’t stand to wait it out much longer, then short term TRT may be an option for you to consider…personally, I wouldn’t do that unless I was literally suicidal, but that is a decison you will have to consider heavily the pros and cons…

If you take that route, I would absolutely use hcg to keep the testes functioning, and only take a true TRT dose of 100 mg/week or so…adex obviously…

If you go through a doc of the NHS, from experiences I have read from others, you most likely will not have this reasonable protocol as an option…
[/quote]

I see your point. I know the NHS will not put me on TRT, SHOULD I have to go down that route I will have to use underground test and hCG alongside pharmaceutical arimidex.
The NHS is only good for one thing, sending you for countless blood tests. On my last visit to the endocrinologist, she had to bring down the consultant to speak to me as she did not know what I was talking about or how I had so much knowledge on the subject.
In the medical industry they teach us two things that are taboo, that is to treat family members and to self-treat. Now that they know I tried self-treatment they are cautious.

Anyway, back to the topic. I am going to go with what you are saying and wait this out another two weeks till my endo appointment. Should the endo not treat me and I still feel like shit, I shall be going on TRT for a short while.
What length of TRT would you recommend?


#15

I think adding more pharms to the mix will only compound the issue. If your gear was indeed deca, you may be shut down totally now. Deca can be nasty stuff, especially at high doses. I would certainly wait it out longer if I could - I’ve heard of it taking (older) guys 1 year+ to fully recover from deca cycles. Some never recover.


#16

[quote]catfish74 wrote:
I think adding more pharms to the mix will only compound the issue. If your gear was indeed deca, you may be shut down totally now. Deca can be nasty stuff, especially at high doses. I would certainly wait it out longer if I could - I’ve heard of it taking (older) guys 1 year+ to fully recover from deca cycles. Some never recover.[/quote]

Yeah 1yr+ is also what Ive heard from deca. Its the shittiest drug out there, however why does deca last longer then boldenone undecylenate? Technically boldenone suppresion should be longer.


#17

I didnt want to create a new thread in this forum to clutter it so I will just post in this one.

My history is in the first post of this thread.
Although everything seems to be on the rise (no pun intended) now I have a situation on my hands.
I dont know if it is just me being paranoid but this is how it goes.

I had some bloods done around a month and a half ago, they returned normal. I dont have the numbers at hand but they were mid-range, nothing unordinary.
Erections are ok now, libido is fine.
My problem now is my refractory periods. I was making love with my girl (been with her for 4 years) and I could not get erect past the first time. I gave it a good 4 hours before trying again, it did go erect but just kept going flacid.
What is going on now? I know VTballa has a couple of theories on ED so maybe he can drop in.
Any advice from anyone would be appreciated!


#18

Sorry I should also add that its been almost a year now since I came off cycle.
Have been using HGH around 8iu E3D or so.


#19

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
I didnt want to create a new thread in this forum to clutter it so I will just post in this one.

My history is in the first post of this thread.
Although everything seems to be on the rise (no pun intended) now I have a situation on my hands.
I dont know if it is just me being paranoid but this is how it goes.

I had some bloods done around a month and a half ago, they returned normal. I dont have the numbers at hand but they were mid-range, nothing unordinary.
Erections are ok now, libido is fine.
My problem now is my refractory periods. I was making love with my girl (been with her for 4 years) and I could not get erect past the first time. I gave it a good 4 hours before trying again, it did go erect but just kept going flacid.
What is going on now? I know VTballa has a couple of theories on ED so maybe he can drop in.
Any advice from anyone would be appreciated![/quote]

Maybe you just weren’t in the mood at the time?


#20

“normal” blood results = worthless
normal includes 90 year men on the death beds, so sure… you are fine if you want your levels to match theirs.

have you checked out the blood test sticky which shows ideal levels?

do you tests results fall within those ranges?