T Nation

2020 - Trump Ain't Playing Games

MOST countries are not successful in socialism. We are founded as a representative republic. That foundation has created a country that most people want to live in, hence the terrible illegal immigration problem facing us.

Talk to someone who is from someplace like China, I mean born and raised, they will tell you how bad it is when the government owns and controls everything. Human nature is inherently evil and people in charge will eventually move to corruption.

Great point, @blabombard89

IMO it also emphasizes where the greatness of the U.S. lies…first and foremost in it’s people; then it’s Constitution; it’s laws; and our system of public AND private Checks and Balances…

We can have good “leaders” or crappy ones…and the Republic pushes on.

How do you define successful? I argue that the countries the conservatives like to point out as examples of failed socialism were poor countries to start with. It seems the countries that have gradually become more socialist, but started with wealth have been successful.

Agree that full communism like what China or Russia had, did not work. No checks and balances, no power to anyone but those who were a high up government official.

Balance is key. I feel that most governments will over time become what we today would call full socialism, just like people from the near past would call our current government full socialism. Just my theory on the direction we are moving.

Curious, is that how you view all democrats?

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@Drew1411…Trump certainly has been “successful” in pushing that narrative.

Even someone that at one time I had some respect for…Sarah Sanders…seems to be pushing that narrative ad-nauseum…

(Note: is it just me…or does Sanders seem “stranger” in some way…almost like an automaton performing a function according to a predetermined set of coded instructions. It just is strange and weird watching her now…)

(Sanders being prepared to talk to the Press…):


No, that’s how I view Bernie Sanders, Beto ORourke, and AOC

Lets be real honest here. The govt is only good at a couple of things, providing a military and a treasury. Everything else gets fucked up and overburdened when the govt takes over. To have govt control over any more of our lives (like medical care) is just a disaster waiting to happen

I wouldn’t push back on Bernie or AOC, but you see Beto as the same? Interesting. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

How about Amy Klobuchar?

I mean there are 20 (more?) candidates, I find it odd to just assume they are all basically socialists, seems like a way to justify an unjustifiable position.

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I don’t disagree with you that the government is inefficient, but in many cases so is the private market.

The government might be inefficient running health care, but is the private market doing much better? Would the inefficiency of the government cost more than the insane profits that private insurance providers are raking in?

I argue that they are not efficient at all at providing a military. The military costs over 50% of the government’s discretionary spending. I think contractors could be much cheaper. We should be looking into this!

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Dont really know anything about her

True, but the ones in the forefront clearly have a socialist agenda (ie. open borders, free medical, free college, income redistribution, etc.)

So you’re pro choice I take it?

Also do you feel out current medical system works? By many measures countries who have more gov’t control than us appear to have better outcomes (realizing outcomes is subjective).

I don’t know how you got there?

This is from malpractice issues and regulations from the govt.

My parents raised 4 children in the 60s thru the early 80s all on very little money and no govt support. We all had medical care, dental care, etc. The medical needs of people havent changed substantially, the only thing that has changed is the govt regulation and oversight which have caused skyrocketing costs

Wouldn’t you say government telling women what to do with their bodies is more control than we currently have?

Oh hell no. Killing an unborn child is never justified.

I think people in Canada and the UK would disagree with you. Hell, just read some of the issues of guys trying to get TRT in those countries

You aren’t serious are you? We know of a lot more things so we can fix a lot more and we live much longer. Needs may be a charged word but what we do to people has changed significantly.

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You can do whatever you want with your body, but you dont have a right to kill the unborn life inside of you.

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Ok so it’s established you are for more government control in certain areas. Not just the treasury and military.

This should be changed to “you can do whatever you want with your body except what I believe you should not do.”

But honestly the last thing I want is another abortion debate for the millionth time on here. I just wanted to see if you thought more government in that area was bad. Just seeing where the line was.