My standard protocol is 250mg a week in daily shots. That’s doctor prescribed. However, due to my channel, I constantly experiment with stuff so I can report the findings afterwards.
Right at this moment I’m doing an experiment. I’m temporarily taking quite a bit more in order to see what effect it has, if any, on blood work outside of the hormones levels themselves. All this out of sheer curiosity and then report my findings at a later date in a video.
Dbossa,
So, that’s 35-36mg per day, correct?
And that’s IM injections?
Anything else you’re taking when on that protocol?
What’s your Free T and total T levels on that protocol?
No typical high E symptoms, such as irritability, moodiness, etc.?
Why can’t we get a quote function on this site?
Drag mouse and highlight what you want to quote and click quote tab to the right.
Wow! Thanks!
36mg a day and was dojng Sub-Q injections. I was also taking 25mg DHEA. Total T was 1068 ng/dL and free was 28 ng/dL last time I did labs. E2 was 45 which I measured our of sheer curiosity. Zero issues.
Was the E2 a sensitive E2 reading, and what was the lab range, if you remember?
For reference, with a sensitive E2 test, I’d feel like crap with a 45. But on the plain Estradiol test, at 45, I’d feel fine on my current protocol.
Think about this, 5000 patients, and i would hope they see them at least twice a year. Once a year would be 20 people a day, a 10 hour day would be a patient every 30 min. But we know they don’t work 10 hour days. Twice a year doubles the number. Help me understand the math. Because I’m thinking these doctors are full of shit, they are not evaluating the patients health. Are these returning patients? Total number of unique patients they’ve seen ever? The number seems total bullshit. I went to Synergenx for a few months, they lined us up and spoke to us for about 5 minutes before going to the next person. Very low standard of care. Basically we were all started the same Dose and then moved up or down depending on some factors that changed week to week. The dr couldn’t remember what he told me the previous week. I bet that place saw 30-40 people a day.
No, my current dr is not selling me anything. Why would your drs lie? Because people lie. Drs lose their license and are arrested commonly. My GF works with drs, and those F’ers lie, or mis-interpret the truth often.
My PCP believes that TRT leads to prostate cancer. He believes the standard dose is 100mg a week. He will not alter. Being a doctor doesn’t mean shit. That’s like saying being a cop means you know and uphold the law.
So back to why would you lie? Maybe you are not asking the right questions. From the videos I watched of you, you don’t challenge anything. You basically bring a panel together and let them run free. And you bash T-Nation, the very site you seem to be on a lot. Why be on this site when you have such contempt for it? You made a comment saying “the guys in T-Nation”? Really? The guys on this site argue and question each other often. But you go and lump everybody together. How and why would you do that?
Simple answer:
I used to be one of the guys here that was pro AI. I was on several forums for awhile. I come from an extremely technical background and was able to get my E2 between 20-30 consistently even when I’d adjust my protocol. It took a few people to show me the light and I didn’t believe them. I argued to death about it. Everytime I got off the AI everything went bad. Once I finally did all my issues were resolved and my health improved across the board in ways I couldn’t believe. I’ve done the same for a ton of guys and the only reason I don’t stop is I wake up each morning to an inbox full of thank you letters. So I keep going.
I lost relationships because of my issues. I almost lost my wife when we first met. My business was failing. I felt like I wasn’t a man. Useless. I don’t want ANY of you to EVER feel like that. It was the worst thing ever. I want you guys to have ZERO issues and be healthy. I spend half my days running my business and the other half doing research and talking to doctors. I report findings on youtube to keep people informed. I have no product to sell. I enjoy doing this. I enjoy learning. My views HAVE changed over time as I get new info. I had nobody reliable to learn from when I started. I ask you again: why the hell would I lie to you? Why would I insist unless I wasn’t 100% certain? Take metformin for example. I’m not sold on it. I’m 50/50. I don’t have a concrete answer for anyone on it so I don’t give advice on it. For the E2 side of things, I am CERTAIN. It cannot be demonstrated to me any more than it already has. Again, take this info and do as you wish. I am merely reporting what is being reported to me and what I, among many others, have been able to demonstrate in practice.
Tell me: does this somehow make me less credible?
This thread caught my attention cause I recently dropped from 180mg T Cyp. a week, back to 160mg. I pin 3 times a week along W/ 0.125 Adex per shot. I feel mentally and physically better at 160mg per week compared to 180mg. The biggest downside for me was the major increase in acne on my face. I have a pretty clear face, but 180 gave me sebaceous acne weekly. In addition, anxiety was spiked significantly higher. Anxiety was noticeably higher. In addition, erections/libido were slightly weaker. These changes that occurred from 160 to 180 were really significant. I went back to 160mg and maintained my 0.125x 3 Adex. And the Acne is gone. My erections are rock hard and the crazy libido is back. Anxiety is reduced. I dont advocate for higher or lower dosages. I dont advocate for AI or non AI. I’m just sharing my experience. I have tried dropping the AI three times and I cant. I experience alot of the high e2 symptoms. For me I’d rather be off TRT than deal with those.
What makes them “poison to the mind”?
I don’t think people understand how many things testosterone effects in the body and when you change or start a new protocol you are reinstalling a fresh version of windows. You have to give it time to load and once it’s loaded it takes extra time to reinstall your old files. The issue is patience. It’s extremely hard to wait 3 months for our new dose to completely install. We want it right now. So instead of waiting we take an AI because all of these issues are only caused by one thing (estrogen) not the gazillion other things that are loading at their own specific paces. I’ve been there. It took me a year to realize this. People argue it up and down but in reality time is likely the answer to most problems. Give yourself enough time for it to correct itself. Go in with the preconceived notion that you may not feel ideal for a while and it may take you longer than the next guy but time is the answer to most issues.
When I was taking 160mg/week(twice per week) I only needed .125mg 3x per week (.375mg) to maintain e2 of 20-30 which is optimal according to trt clinic. Guess everyone is different
Aside from numbers… how did you feel?
This is making me realize how much of a retard I’m being right now. I switched from 100mg (prescribed by PCP)to 200mg (100mg Mon and Thursday)and .25mg anstrozole along with the injection. (getting it from somewhere else not prescribed)because I wasn’t feeling much on it from 100mg(which is the 2nd go around so I have good experience how it effects me)however I jumped that high because I already tried 160mg before as well and I felt better on it than 100mg but not necessarily the best I can do.
200mg is giving me increased anxiety, and I’m less productive than j was before oddly enough. I think I’m going to start 140mg per week stating monday(70mg Mon and Thurs with .25mg anas once per week)
Oh and btw I also forgot theirs other stuff I could take to increase strength/muscle than testosterone…test is just to FEEL better and optimal as a MAN
Ask that trt clinic where they got the 20-30 range of being optimal…because I know where they got it from.
A single study, which was a total BS study, came out with that number and then everyone jumped on-board like sheep.
Exactly. Most guys are not in tune with their body enough to pick up on symptons and they go by Unnoticed and then they spread misinformation on forums.
High estrogen in men after injectable testosterone therapy: the low T experience - PubMed higher levels of estradiol associated with higher libido on TRT
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101
No serious adverse neuropsychiatric effects/ no observable decrease in sexual function from 600mg weekly in both studies (I think it’s fair to say 600mg constitutes as supraphysiolgic), granted the study sizes are small, however I can link far more studies using 2-300mg weekly for prolonged periods of time… same outcome
Danny is a little crude at times, especially when he’s trying to beat a dead horse like this one, but he’s not wrong. His wording just doesn’t add up to an acceptable reasoning in your mind… and that’s ok. We all have to understand things in our own way. That being said (and forgive me @dbossa if I’m putting words in your mouth and please feel free to correct or refute anything I say here) I’ll try to say what Danny said in a little different way and hopefully it makes more sense to you…
First, yes you are right. There are symptoms that can be accredited to high E2. No question about it. The issue lies where this connection becomes a diagnosis, and not a prognosis, which is actually what it truly is. The problem is really not that E2 is high in and of itself. What we have learned is that E2 is GOOD for you. It promotes health. It promotes a good libido and stronger erections. Good bone health. Good joint and tendon health. The list goes on and in…
The problem really lies in the balance of E2 to Testosterone. There’s what’s called estrogen dominance, and this is where most guys that I have interacted with fall when they complain of high E2 symptoms. This happens when either A…testosterone is too low, or B…aromatase activity is too high (ie too much body fat), or both. All of these can and should be corrected by means other than an AI. AI’s have been shown to be poison for the body. Not good.
It’s not that E2 is high that’s the issue. It’s that the delicate E2 to Testosterone balance is heavily skewed.
Saying the problem is E2 is just looking at half the equation. It’s kind of like saying that when you have the flu, the problem is the high fever. Well, true you feel like shit because you have a high fever, but the high fever isn’t the issue. The issue is the flu virus!! The only real difference here is that there is no way to cure the flu virus, so doctors have to resort to symptom regulation in order to try and make you more comfortable while your body does its thing and purges out the virus, while an estrogen dominance can actually be corrected (and without using poisonous AI’s in MOST (almost all) cases). Just like you never want to control fever while you have the flu (it’s your body’s way of fighting the virus), except in the rare case where it becomes life threatening, you never really want to directly try to reduce estrogen… Correct the problem, not the symptom if at all possible.
Hope this makes sense and helps in some small way.
So have you managed to find that delicate balance?