Well I was really looking forward to this years battle, especially between Basso and Ullrich until I read this. All I keep thinking is what the fuck were they thinking
??? Nice.
That is one hell of an event, and it seems like Lance Armstrong got out at the right time. I think you would have to be on some sort of enhancement program just to get through the damn race, it`s that tough, and now with these last two racers being tossed, it looks like an event that may be heading towards the “who gives a shit” column.
[quote]trailrash wrote:
Well I was really looking forward to this years battle, especially between Basso and Ullrich until I read this. All I keep thinking is what the fuck were they thinking
??? Nice.
I should not jump to the quick conclusion that they are guilty. I actually have a tough time beleiving these two were really doping, but who knows. I guess we will have to wait and see how thsi pans out. Im just pissed that this has happened and that this came out 1 day before the start.
[quote]trailrash wrote:
Well I was really looking forward to this years battle, especially between Basso and Ullrich until I read this. All I keep thinking is what the fuck were they thinking
??? Nice.
[/quote]
Niether of these athletes have been found guilty of anything. Their teams pulled them due to pressure from race organizers since they were being tried by the press.
[quote]SLERG wrote:
…and now with these last two racers being tossed, it looks like an event that may be heading towards the “who gives a shit” column. [/quote]
Hardly. If anything it will get more press in America since George, Floyd, and Levi will likely be higher in the standings.
For countries that truley appreciate cycling, it will be as popular as ever because there will be a new champion for the first time in many years.
[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
trailrash wrote:
Well I was really looking forward to this years battle, especially between Basso and Ullrich until I read this. All I keep thinking is what the fuck were they thinking
??? Nice.
Niether of these athletes have been found guilty of anything. Their teams pulled them due to pressure from race organizers since they were being tried by the press.[/quote]
I know… see my above post
[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
SLERG wrote:
…and now with these last two racers being tossed, it looks like an event that may be heading towards the “who gives a shit” column.
Hardly. If anything it will get more press in America since George, Floyd, and Levi will likely be higher in the standings.
For countries that truley appreciate cycling, it will be as popular as ever because there will be a new champion for the first time in many years.[/quote]
I agree with you on this. It will also look as though the Discovery Team will look at this Tour in a different light as well. Lets see what PoPo and Azevedo can pull off.
I actually just really wanted to see Ullrich win this year which is why I’m a bit fired up.
Personally, I believe doping is even more prevalent than the media makes it out to be, especially in cycling and track and field. I always refer to the late Duchaine when this issue comes up (paraphrased): “If you’re a world class athlete and you aren’t doping or you are and get caught, you are not in the know.”
For me, however, the doping does not detract from the sport, or any other sport for that matter, one bit. I think that’s part of the fascination behind cycling for me, how these athletes can manipulate their training, nutrition and drug protocols to make these incredible runs. I believe Lance did dope and I don’t condemn him for it one bit.
I, for one, am still excited about the Tour. I love it, and I’m not even a casual cyclist.
Well if you read further you learn that Alexandre Vinokourov’s team had enough riders kicked out that they can’t even enter a team.
So that means Vino is out, Basso is out, Ullrich is out, oh and Joseba Beloki is out too.
Jesus H Christ. Make way for Floyd Landis. (that is if he isn’t found to be doping after 2 Phonak riders were found guilty 2 years ago).
Now you sorta wonder how Discovery is able to keep out of this shitstorm. Do they test their own riders before the UCI tests them to ensure that they’re clean? Or do they just have deep pockets to keep the authorities hush-hush? Not saying its true, just being the devil’s advocate.
Mancebo is out, time for a Dutch winner, havent had one since Joop Zoetemelk…dahum I had to reach for that one.
[quote]chrismcl wrote:
Well if you read further you learn that Alexandre Vinokourov’s team had enough riders kicked out that they can’t even enter a team.
So that means Vino is out, Basso is out, Ullrich is out, oh and Joseba Beloki is out too.
Jesus H Christ. Make way for Floyd Landis. (that is if he isn’t found to be doping after 2 Phonak riders were found guilty 2 years ago).
Now you sorta wonder how Discovery is able to keep out of this shitstorm. Do they test their own riders before the UCI tests them to ensure that they’re clean? Or do they just have deep pockets to keep the authorities hush-hush? Not saying its true, just being the devil’s advocate.[/quote]
Its a little more than that. You never saw Lance backing out of a race b/c the press launched a witch hunt on him.
But it sucks big time b/c I was really looking forward to this year. I still am but it completely fucks up my Tour Fantasy game.
[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
trailrash wrote:
Well I was really looking forward to this years battle, especially between Basso and Ullrich until I read this. All I keep thinking is what the fuck were they thinking
??? Nice.
Niether of these athletes have been found guilty of anything. Their teams pulled them due to pressure from race organizers since they were being tried by the press.[/quote]
[quote]chrismcl wrote:
Now you sorta wonder how Discovery is able to keep out of this shitstorm. Do they test their own riders before the UCI tests them to ensure that they’re clean? Or do they just have deep pockets to keep the authorities hush-hush? Not saying its true, just being the devil’s advocate.[/quote]
Or, maybe that have a system that works so well that they don’t need to dope to win…
Trust me, no amount of money would keep doping claims against Discovery quiet.
So many people want to bring Discovery and Lance down that you’d have to Bill Gates would have to be cutting the checks to keep people quiet on that one.
A Spanish doctor got caught crossing the border with a bunch of shit for a Spanish team which led the press and investigators to run with this and a lot of Spanish riders and their teams are involved consequently. I would imagine had it been an American doc, the situation would be different.
Also, if American riders were on some shit they would get it in the US I would imagine. The European witch hunt press will have a tought time to get anyone in the US to talk about American riders I would imagine.
Just pure speculation and thinking on my part, I have nothing to back this up.
[quote]chrismcl wrote:
Well if you read further you learn that Alexandre Vinokourov’s team had enough riders kicked out that they can’t even enter a team.
So that means Vino is out, Basso is out, Ullrich is out, oh and Joseba Beloki is out too.
Jesus H Christ. Make way for Floyd Landis. (that is if he isn’t found to be doping after 2 Phonak riders were found guilty 2 years ago).
Now you sorta wonder how Discovery is able to keep out of this shitstorm. Do they test their own riders before the UCI tests them to ensure that they’re clean? Or do they just have deep pockets to keep the authorities hush-hush? Not saying its true, just being the devil’s advocate.[/quote]
Possibly and hopefully.
However, if you think that no American rider or no rider for Discovery has ever used anything, I think you live in a fantasy world.
EPO was legal for a good number of years till they banned it in the Tour. You think no American rider ever took that?
[quote]Jim_Bobv2 wrote:
chrismcl wrote:
Now you sorta wonder how Discovery is able to keep out of this shitstorm. Do they test their own riders before the UCI tests them to ensure that they’re clean? Or do they just have deep pockets to keep the authorities hush-hush? Not saying its true, just being the devil’s advocate.
Or, maybe that have a system that works so well that they don’t need to dope to win…
Trust me, no amount of money would keep doping claims against Discovery quiet.
So many people want to bring Discovery and Lance down that you’d have to Bill Gates would have to be cutting the checks to keep people quiet on that one.
[/quote]
[quote]trailrash wrote:
I should not jump to the quick conclusion that they are guilty. I actually have a tough time beleiving these two were really doping, but who knows. [/quote]
Really? You’re kidding, right? All these guys are doping. Now since they all are, it’s a level playing field IMO so I’m fine with it. But to think that the guys that test clean are clean or the guys who get caught are the only ones doing stuff is way beyond naive.
None of the riders pulled from this year’s TdF tested positive for anything. In fact, none have been found guilty of anything at this point. There were pulled apparently because there names came up in the investigation of a Spanish doping ring.
Unlike the US, many countries do not believe that one is innocent until proven guilty. I’ve heard that the French have something known as Napolean’s Law which states that you’re guily until proven innocent. I don’t know whether this is true, but to me it’s another good reason to hate the French.
I think the Giro is a much more exciting race anyway.
As for Discovery, I seriously doubt that they have paid off anyone. T-Mobile has the largest buget of the ProTour Teams at 18 million/year and they were just forced to pull Jan and Baby Face.
[quote]greatgro wrote:
trailrash wrote:
I should not jump to the quick conclusion that they are guilty. I actually have a tough time beleiving these two were really doping, but who knows.
Really? You’re kidding, right? All these guys are doping. Now since they all are, it’s a level playing field IMO so I’m fine with it. But to think that the guys that test clean are clean or the guys who get caught are the only ones doing stuff is way beyond naive.[/quote]
It’s even more foolish to assume that everyone is doing it. I know people on ProTour Teams and can tell you that not everyone is doping. Still, many likely are, but it’s currently far from the majority of athletes.
Outside of the superstars, most of these guys don’t even get paid enough to afford the high-level drug programs required to avoid detection.
[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
Possibly and hopefully.
However, if you think that no American rider or no rider for Discovery has ever used anything, I think you live in a fantasy world.
EPO was legal for a good number of years till they banned it in the Tour. You think no American rider ever took that?[/quote]
Hamilton got busted, so I’m not naive enough to think that Americans (although, Discovery is far from an “All American” team) are all clean.
All I’m saying is that I doubt Discovery could cover it up if they were dirty.
Who knows, maybe they are dirty and they can just cover things up way, way, way better than anyone else.
I just think that isn’t too likely given the fact that they are the most closely watched team in cycling because of what Lance accomplished.
Yeah I see what you mean, good point.
[quote]Jim_Bobv2 wrote:
Amsterdam Animal wrote:
Possibly and hopefully.
However, if you think that no American rider or no rider for Discovery has ever used anything, I think you live in a fantasy world.
EPO was legal for a good number of years till they banned it in the Tour. You think no American rider ever took that?
Hamilton got busted, so I’m not naive enough to think that Americans (although, Discovery is far from an “All American” team) are all clean.
All I’m saying is that I doubt Discovery could cover it up if they were dirty.
Who knows, maybe they are dirty and they can just cover things up way, way, way better than anyone else.
I just think that isn’t too likely given the fact that they are the most closely watched team in cycling because of what Lance accomplished.
[/quote]
[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
But it sucks big time b/c I was really looking forward to this year. I still am but it completely fucks up my Tour Fantasy game.
[/quote]
So what was your “Tour Fantasy game”???
Ivan Basso straps you down to a bed with innertubes while Jan Ullrich slathers you down with chamois cream. And oop! in comes Joseba Beloki wearing nothing but a yellow jersey…