T Nation

20 Years Old, Trying To Deal w/ Low Test


#1

Hey guys, so my testosterone, zinc, and Vit-D 25 results are still pending but I will update the thread when they come in.

-age - 20
-height - 6"1
-waist - 32" Jeans
-weight - 178
-describe body and facial hair - Very little body hair, only grow hair in a goatee fashion, everything else is peach fuzz.
-describe where you carry fat and how changed - I used to always have a six pack no matter what I ate, now I'm sitting around 13-14% fat.
-health conditions, symptoms [history] - None.
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever - When I was younger I took some antibiotics for bronchitis. However, that was when my hormones were high and they stayed high even after that.
-lab results with ranges
-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets] - Lots of milk, meat, grains, vegetables, and fruit when I can. I had one point when I tried to lose a lot of weight for athletic purposes and got quite underweight, like BMI 18-19.
-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training] - I definitely severely over trained for a long period of time, excessive aerobic exercise with little food to support it, threw my hormones out of whack for sure. Before that I had very high hormonal levels and
-testes ache, ever, with a fever? No.
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed - Morning wood and nocturnal erections gone for 2 years ever since my undereating stint. Recently a bit of nocturnal, but not really any morning wood.

After I tried to lose weight to an extreme level everything has turned south, and ever since that period of 6 months of overtraining harshly my hormones have never been even close to the same. Also when I started losing weight and got really low I started to feel hunger paints I had never felt before which I'm guessing would be related to my thyroid so I'm guessing slight hypothyroid now.

It wasn't until about 4 months ago that I realized that damage I was doing. I took 3 weeks off but then I had to start training again because of my commitment to athletics at school. I started to feel better for those 3 weeks especially at the end but then got run down again and now I'm taking time off.

Ever since that episode I have also had very bad runners trots and digestion I think in general so I think I am going to be taking some time off from exercise completely. My erections are not that strong, especially if I don't have something in front of me, and if I don't have something in front of me sometimes I cannot even climax.

Hematology
WBC 5.7 4.0-10.0 giga/L
RBC 5.37 4.20-5.40 tera/L
Hemoglobin 165 133-165 g/L
Hematocrit 0.49 0.38-0.50
MCV 91 82-98 fl
MCH 30.7 27.5-33.5 pg
MCHC 338 305-365 g/L
RDW 12.4 11.5-14.5 %
Platelet Count 158 150-400 giga/L
Differential
Neutrophils 2.3 2.0-7.5 giga/L
Lymphocytes 2.8 1.0-4.0 giga/L
Monocytes 0.4 0.1-0.8 giga/L
Eosinophils 0.2 0.0-0.7 giga/L
Basophils 0.0 0.0-0.2 giga/L
Biochemical Investigation of Anemias
Vitamin B12 A 892 150-650 pmol/L
Ferritin 30 15-300 ug/L
Serum ferritin is the recommended single
test to diagnose iron deficiency.
General Chemistry
Glucose Fasting 5.4 3.3-5.5 mmol/L
Sodium 139 134-145 mmol/L
Potassium 4.8 3.5-5.0 mmol/L
Creatinine 81 70-120 umol/L
More specific enzymatic creatinine method
implemented September 19, 2011. Majority of
patient results will have no significant
change.
Estimated GFR 105 >=60 mL/min

Calcium 2.43 2.10-2.55 mmol/L
Total Protein 71 60-80 g/L
Albumin 47 35-50 g/L
Alkaline Phosphatase 93 48-138 U/L
Gamma GT 20 10-58 U/L
ALT 31 <50 U/L
Magnesium 0.80 0.70-1.05 mmol/L
Muscle Enzymes CK 191 <300 U/L

Thyroid Function
TSH 2.3 0.38-5.5 mU/L
The free T4 order was cancelled. The
BCMA/MSP Protocol recommends no further
testing. However, a specimen will be
stored seven days.

Adrenal Function
Cortisol
AM Cortisol 508 140-690 nmol/L

Will update with more results, I appreciate the help everyone.


#2

Okay guys I got some more results.

Reproductive and Gonadal
Testosterone 21.3 10.0-30.0 nmol/L
Metals

Bone Markers
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 137 75-150 nmol/L

The T levels convert to about 613 ng/dl.

Should I be looking at my E2 levels and is clomid restart still possible for me or should I just focus on getting my levels up naturally.


#3

Why would you want to do a clomid restart with T levels at 613? Do you even know what a clomid restart is used for?

Your T levels are absolutely fine. You need to look at other hormones to explain your symptoms. Speaking of which, I'm not clear what they even are? You mention inability to get an erection and climax, but you also brush on digestion issues (why do you think this?) and running trots (i dont know what that is). What else?


#4

Well isn't 613 a bit low for a 20 year old?

I think digestion issues because I think my T levels could be higher and my ferritin was a bit low so maybe absorption issues? Also runnres trots is shortly into a run I have to go to the bathroom, sometimes even 3-4 times, so maybe undigested food? Lots of the time it's very runny stool.

I am able to get an erection and climax, just not as strongly as I used to.

So I'm guessing this means I should go for a natural route completely. I think I've been overtrained a bit so maybe 6 weeks off completely will put me back to my optimal T levels I'm hoping.


#5

You may possibly have gut/digestion issues...this could be a function of diet, food allergies, or something of that sort....you might want to try elimination diet or running your normal diet against common food allergies, but it doesn't sound like it is a huge effect on your life...

T levels of 613 are not low for any age....you aren't going to get much sympathy here being in the upper 1/3 of the range...you are looking for problems that don't exist...

Why do you think you've overtrained? 6 weeks off is basically quitting--I don't see any reason to do that at your age...if you think you are overreaching (you probably arent) then just keep up your normal routine and back off the intensity/volume a little bit...again, you are looking for problems that probably don't exist.


#6

I have some thyroid labs to update!

TSH 1.2 (0.38-5.5) mU/L
T4 Free 16.9 (10.5-20.0) pmol/L
T3 Free 6.1 (3.5-6.5) pmol/L
Thyroperoxidase Ab 13 (<35) IU/mL

I'm 21 years old now. I've had general bloodwork done and previous TT was 600ng/L on DAA, tongat ali, tribulus, perfect sleep schedule (10hours per night starting at 10:00pm daily), testosterone specific diet, working out twice a week, ect. However when I'm not on DAA I plummet(recently though DAA hasn't been working as well when I was using it), and even when I was at 600ng/L my lack of muscle gains(no gains for 4 months), lack of facial and body hair, and secondary sex characteristics were just not there. Who knows how free testosterone was doing. Also I store A LOT of fat in my thighs and tricep folds so I'm guessing my E2 levels are whack even more so from the DAA without an AI most likely.

My bloodwork before showed all CBC, Zinc, Vit-D, VitB12, Iron, Liver Enzymes, Muscle Enzymes, ect all good.

I've investigated many different types of diets and none help. Tried going gluten free, ect.

What else should I check out before I think of TRT? I've tried looking into;
1) Food sensitivities
2) Celiac Disease
3) Thyroid
4) General blood work

Also, I'm getting TT retested in 2-3 weeks because doc didn't know I was taking those supplements before. IF it shows that I have low TT (I'm guessing I'm around 300 right now basing off how I felt before), what should my plan of action be?

How worth it is it to try a restart?
If so which is the best for restart, Clomid, Nolva, HCG?

I'm just about ready to opt for TRT at this point if my levels come back low enough for them to prescribe.

I would appreciate any advice on the situation greatly.


#7

Levels in the 600s can be a target range for TRT. You can consider doing a cycle, but TRT would be very stupid medically and financially.


#8

^this. but you've ignored the advice you've asked for so far, as your new post is essentially stating you haven't changed your mind about how you want to proceed.


#9

Edited:

"However when I'm not on DAA I plummet(recently though DAA hasn't been working as well when I was using it),"

How do you know you plummet? If it's just how you feel then that isn't proof of anything. Placebo is a helluva drug.

"and even when I was at 600ng/L my lack of muscle gains(no gains for 4 months)"

There's more to gaining muscle than T levels, and at 600ng/dL testosterone isn't your problem.

"lack of facial and body hair,"

So you are completely smooth coat? Some guys don't have a ton of facial hair. Also, you're 21! I couldn't grow a full beard until around 23. Some guys even longer. You're still growing FFS.

"and secondary sex characteristics were just not there."

Your balls haven't dropped? You have never ejaculated? Your voice still sounds like a teenage girl? No body hair at all?

"Who knows how free testosterone was doing."

Not me, and not you apparently. Get it tested if you aren't sure. But I'll venture a guess that you don't care, you just want TRT.

I have no idea why you, who has no symptoms of hypogonadism, would want to start taking a medical therapy that has the potential for several side-effects, needs to continue until the day you die, and will give you marginal increases in your T levels!

It literally makes me ill to see someone with such good test results begging to be on a therapy that many of us had to have a testicle removed and NEEDED to get on. The operative word is NEEDED, in that we couldn't live life without it. You are 21 years old for christ's sake! Don't get on a life-long, sterility-inducing, therapy for NO GOOD REASON.


#10

Grox, flipcoller, and ctastrophe,

Thanks for the responses, I appreciate it. I agree that if my natty T levels were 600 I wouldn't even consider TRT.

However, due to the fact that I achieved those 600ng/dL levels on DAA, Tongkat Ali, Trans-Resversatol, DIM, Alpha Male, Maca, and Pycnogenol. During that time I went to bed every night at 10:00pm and slept till 8:00am. My diet was quite good, no junk food at all, and followed specific testosterone principles. Due to this I feel 600ng/dL taken upon waking is a little low.

My symptoms went on for 2 years before that of low T, I could go 1/2 a year without masturbation and sex or porn never even crossed my mind, let alone think of girls. I could barely climax when I did try. I would stall at the gym with no gains for many months at a time. Only upon focusing all my effort in supplementation, perfect sleep schedule, and a tailored diet could I achieve 600ng/dL and gain a little bit of muscle. If I stop supplementation I end up in a the vicious cycle again.

Is this not reason to test natural levels and at least investigate the possibility of TRT? Or maybe my doctor while have another idea to why. I know I probably sound like a hypochondriac, and I know that there isn't always a relationship between testosterone levels and how someone feels, but I can notice a severe dropoff in gym performance, energy, and libido so I think (?) that it is okay to at least make a correlation (although I know that correlation many times =! causation).


#11

Why did you change names?

Have you had your T levels checked without the DAA, Alpha Male, etc? Nobody's saying don't test more, they're saying BASED ON YOUR LABS, TRT makes no sense. If you were to get tested again at different levels after supplements were dropped, then perhaps there is a different conversation to be had.

But from what I've read, you haven't done that. You're making guesses, and wanting to act on presumptions. Nobody here is gonna support that.


#12

Flipcollar,

Thanks again for the prompt response. In my previous post I said;

"Also, I'm getting TT retested in 2-3 weeks because doc didn't know I was taking those supplements before. IF it shows that I have low TT (I'm guessing I'm around 300 right now basing off how I felt before), what should my plan of action be?"

So I'll be getting it pretty soon and seeing the results, which I will obviously bring here. Sorry for the confusion as I know my posts are all over the place. Sorry about the account thing confusion, I made this account when I couldn't remember the username/password for this account, but then realized I should get the information for this account and update this thread. I went in to delete the other post and forgot to logout, my fault for the confusion.

I was basically looking for IF the tests came back low, does restart ever really work if secondary (and if so what is the best restart method, I am somewhat confused on the differing opinions on Clomid vs Nolva vs HCG). Also should I ask to be tested for a pituitary tumor if the levels come back low, or does the thyroid results I had taken pretty much rule that out?

Thanks again.


#13

I'd say if your normal morning levels come back twice below 500 on the scale 350-1150, then you may consider taking medical action. Normal being no herbs, regular sleep, didn't get drunk the night before, and etc.

HCG isn't really a restart, it's just sort of used as a substitute for your regular pituitary hormones. Look into Clomid or Nolva for a restart.


#14

Hey guys,

So I have been doing some talking with my ND and some research and I believe I may be suffering from some major adrenal fatigue. The symptoms are pretty spot on, hard time getting up, gaunt face, anxiety, low testosterone, ect.

I am waiting for lab on 4x Cortisol saliva and DHEA (I'm hoping it's DHEA-S) and Neurotransmitter testing. I also got some general health markers, Vitamin D, B12, Cholesterol, CRP, ect.

Anyways, assuming that I have adrenal fatigue. What's the best way for me to go about this? I'm already planning some major lifestyle changes to eliminate stress/"life suckers".

I've gotten a adrenal support and B stress complex so far. What about Raw Adrenal glandular, does that have to be cycled? Or what about Isocort? Obviously this will depend on my results, but is Raw Adrenal Glandular a staple for someone with adrenal fatigue? I'm pretty sure I'm in an advanced stage because I can't put on any weight for the life of me. Again, could be related to something else, but this is a decent hypothesis I think to prepare for.

Giving me some hope for possibly bringing back my T levels natty style.

Thanks a lot guys!


#15

I'm no expert.
From what I understand adrenal fatigue would mean that you have low cortisol, presumably due to your adrenal glands having been over-stimulated. This means that an ACTH stimulation test should be done to see if your glands are responsive.