T Nation

20 Years Old, First Cycle.


Hey, new to the forums, posting here to get the vet's opinions on my first cycle, having been researching since my second year of training, ( have been training since i was 16, 20 years old now), added a considerable amount of LBM on my frame, 10-11kg, in addition to having lost 50kg of fat from my physique from my heavy bulks (which hind-sight were not the best approaches although i did learn alot about my body),

i am not new to the nutrition and diet game, much like everything i do with my diet it is very malicious in terms of structured and planned, i know that 20 years old is not the best age to be thinking of Anabolics although having said that with coming onto 4 years of training on my belt, having added 20-25lb of pure muscle on my frame and losing 50kg+ fat naturally shows my dedication and knowledge on nutrition and diet, in addition to this hopefully you can tell by my well though out cycle and PCT that i am here to minimize risks, i am aware of risk/reward.

My stats;

20 Years Old,

Goal: My Goal is to add a significant amount of LBM this cycle (10-15lb+) , have a few questions regarding PCT and HCG.

Week 1-8 test prop 150mg/EOD.
Week 2-8 Armidex 0.5mg EOD
Week 2-8 HCG 250IU x2 Week Monday and Thursday.

Week 15 40mg Nolvadex Every Day 50mg clomid Every Day
Week 16 40mg Nolvadex Every Day 50mg clomid Every Day
Week 17 20mg Nolvadex Every Day 50mg clomid Every Day
Week 18 20mg Nolvadex Every Day 50mg clomid Every Day

Questions in relation to cycle & PCT;

  • Im thinking of whether using HCG start of week 2 as then that's when i know i will be suppressed since i am using a shorter ester, the reasoning for this is i have read after mixed HCG is only 'good' for 6 weeks, i can use the pregnancy test to check although i think using it first week will be unnecessary.

  • Same goes for my AI (Armidex), week 2 start should suffice thats when the bloating will come from what i have read on other logs, correct?

  • On a 8 Week cycle EOD pins, i will finish my last pin on a 'saturday' my last HCG pin will be on thursday that same week therefore am i safe to have everything COMPLETELY stopped on saturday and start my PCT protocol Tuesday on the following week or should i start monday for the sake of easier timing?

In terms of my diet; My TDEE @ 170lb is 2950, my calories will be consisting of 3000 at the baseline start of my 'bulk' at the macros of 250/350/75 (P,C,F) This will naturally raise higher and higher as my bulk continues, in terms of food sources im aware this post is already long enough so i will not post down a generic diet plan although i will be sitting away with sodium due to chances of bloating and to keep it down, fat will consist of poly and mono (also saturated for health reasons, just minimized)

My training regime is a 5 day split,
Monday; Chest/Abs/Traps
Tuesday; Quads/Hammies/Calves
Wednesday; Shoulders/Traps
Thursday; Back/Biceps
Friday; Chest/Triceps

Question regarding my split;
1. My main priority development wise would be definitely my chest, with the aid of anabolics training chest twice a week would seem do-able although close to shoulders (such as shown on wednesday and friday) would that be a issue due to recovery? being a natural i am not sure on the frequency in which such big bodyparts can be hit a week. I am aware traps are already very responsive to training and can be trained EOD.

For the people who read through that WHOLLEEE thing, thank you. I know i will get the "learn how to diet, natural potential!, i am aware and im sure this may not be the BEST idea at this age, although before i do commit and take that first injection, i will be having a blood test, EKG on my heart, urine test for my liver, everything needed to make sure i am in good health to undergo this.

In Addition; pictures to show that i am not new to training, i know many are bigger then me and rightfully so, you are all older then me but i do hold my own....picture of wheels first.


You're too young, and others on this forum, smarter than me will tell you the same. Wait a few more years.



Also, I believe you meant to use the word "meticulous...as malicious makes no sense lol.

The more youuuuuuu learrrrnnnnn (Reading Rainbow bitch).


Its not a question of your intent or how committed or disciplined you are, it is a matter of shutting down your natural testosterone production before it ever starts to slow on its own, and at 20yrs 6ft 175 you haven't put on anywhere near the size you could put on naturally. Don't take this the wrong way but that's small, your frame can do way more naturally.

Better idea!!!!
..... Use the discipline and commitment you have to eat alot( I mean really alot of good food) and keep training hard and you will gain ad much as you wanna gain(20lb) easy in the next three years, probably double that, and you wont harm your body, shut down natural T production or endure crazy mood swings(or put wife/girlfriend through it, you may want one of those when you are older)

Anyway, good luck, just weigh options, and understand that you aren't taking a chance of having these consequences you are accepting them if you go for it.


I completely understand the risks to my HPTA, anyone willing to give me some help on my OT though?

I am thankful for all your concerns.

i will be getting a blood test post pre and during cycle.

also EKG on my heart prior.


Ok well if that's not enough you don't need to be cycling because you are not experienced enough and only weigh 175lbs at 6ft tall. There is no, 0, Not One excuse for you not to weigh atleast 200lbs espeacially being over 6ft tall. Stay natural and put your time in. Why is this so hard for people to understand. Stop looking for a quick fix and do what needs to be done. Get in the kitchen, then get under a bar, then sleep.


OP, I understand your impatience in regards to progress and results...I really do.

However, if you put in the time now, as Reed mentioned, when your have gained appropriate size and experience, you will be much better off and get more out of a cycle.


I have been 220lb at 18, albeit i wasnt the leanest, weight isnt a problem. I can hit 220lb again if i wanted to although i will be watery, bloated and fat.

I am now 175~ at a respectable bodyfat %, have a look at the pictures i posted.


I don't care your still only 175. If you can get it to 200 so easily then do it and then get on the cycle.


I was going to rebuttal but ill leave it as that, you must be a teenager also, that post was horrid.


Im 22 5'7 220 and train with literally hands down some of the best lifters this world has ever seen... I know my shit and I know what I am talking about. You can debate and argue all you want but, almost every single reputable person on this board or any other will completely agree with me and Ironman. You need to realize you are wrong pure and simple. But, do what you want and ignore us all because at the end of the day we know you are going to any way.


Yea. Educate yoself fool.


I agree with everyone here OP, wait and learn.


If Bauber agrees...it must be true. He's fucking hyuuuuge


What they said!


You look like your a massive ZYZZ fan.Im guessing your doing the EKG cause the gear etc.. went so well for him.The irony is there are dozens of thai guys that pretty much only do Muai thai, never lift or do gear with physiques easily as developed as yours-do your self a favour mate and keep eating and lifting. You've got a good frame and will fill out a shit load more naturally,your mates will be well "jelly" that you did it without any gear.....


I wish I was 6'1...must be nice but yeah, 175 at 6'1" is super thin. You can even have a good base of lean muscle at that size. We aren't being mean bro, just being honest and trying to help. You will gain 20 lbs of muscle over the next 5 years if you half-ass work out , so let nature do its thing and enjoy being young without aas.


Use Arimidex from day 1.


if we are going to be completely fair, Reed.

Op, 175 @ 6'1 is very thin, almost sickeningly so. You can get up to 200lbs at a reasonable bodyfat if you learn how to eat and train properly.

get bloodwork done to see where your natural test levels and other hormone levels are at, then report back with the results


...is that a picture of Reed?