Understood. Sorry I thought you would put this article here. I think I started to have problems when I started to get fat. That’s why I was thinking that maybe losing it I would be fine
FYI…Does not answer your question exactly but it does show adiposity, E2 and low T may not be as linked as previously thought.
Mogri M, Dhindsa S, Quattrin T, Ghanim H, Dandona P. Testosterone Concentrations In Young Pubertal And Post-Pubertal Obese Males. Clinical Endocrinology. Testosterone Concentrations In Young Pubertal And Post-Pubertal Obese Males - Mogri - Clinical Endocrinology - Wiley Online Library
Objective Obesity in adult males is associated with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. We evaluated the effect of obesity on plasma testosterone concentrations in pubertal and post pubertal young males.
Design And Methods Morning fasting blood samples were obtained from 25 obese (BMI>95th percentile) and 25 lean(BMI<85th percentile) males between the ages 14-20 years with Tanner staging >4. Total and free testosterone and estradiol concentrations were measured by liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry and equilibrium dialysis. Free testosterone was also calculated using SHBG and albumin. C-reactive protein (CRP), insulin and glucose concentrations were measured and homeostasis model of insulin resistance (HOMA-IR) was calculated.
Results After controlling for age and Tanner staging, obese males had a significantly lower total testosterone(10.5 vs 21.44nmol/l), free testosterone(0.22 vs 0.39nmol/l) and calculated free testosterone(0.26 vs 0.44nmol/l) concentrations as compared to lean males(p<0.001 for all). Obese males had higher CRP concentrations (2.8 vs 0.8mg/l; p<0.001), and HOMA-IR (3.8 vs 1.1; p<0.001) than lean males. Free testosterone concentrations were positively related to age and negatively to BMI, HOMA-IR and CRP concentrations. Total and free estradiol concentrations were significantly lower in males with subnormal testosterone in concentrations.
Conclusion Testosterone concentrations of young obese pubertal and post pubertal males are 40-50% lower than those with normal BMI. Obesity in young males is associated with low testosterone concentrations which are not secondary to an increase in estradiol concentrations. Our results need to be confirmed in a larger number of subjects.
[quote]brazilianguy wrote:
I’m very affraid I wanna get a girlfriend but I can’t with this moody and ED problems.[/quote]
This made me laugh haha man I don’t know if you are serious or you are just a troll. It just sounds so ridiculous the way you put it.
If you are serious take a deep breath and re-read all replies and then re-read them again so you catch everything that has been said. You ignore everything posted and just talk about losing fat to lower e2.
Nobody has any idea what you have taken or how long for and how long off.
If you are so keen about losing weight probably time to just do it and see.
If those blood tests are a short time after serm use then I am not surprised by your e2 being higher.
Taking Anastrozol for weight loss is just wrong but hey do what you want.
Dbsmith. You don’t know how much I’m grateful to you. I think in that case they were already obese. I was vegan for 3 years and also took a lot of hyper calorics suplements to get strong and since I started to become fatter my libido and my potence was decreasing. I will have my latest blood work in some days. I’m very thankful to you patience with me. I don’t speak English so it’s a little bit hard for me to express myself.
Iroczinoz. I’m not a troll trust me I wouldn’t desire what I feeling to anybody not even to my worst enemy. I will have my next blood work done and I will post it here. I will take anastrozole to reduce my e2 to a good level and then start to lose weight not the oposite because it would be definitely wrong. Also I’m grateful for your reply
What SERM were you taking?
What dose?
For how long?
You have good TT levels, LH is high, E2 is high normal, TSH is high, T4 is sub optimal.
Your high LH seems oddly high compared to your FSH. Lab may have caught a LH peak. But LH seems high even for that effect. Some some uncertainty. FSH is often a better guide than LH.
High LH or high doses of hCG can cause a lot of T–>E2 inside the testes. Some of that may be going on.
If you are taking clomid, many feel horrible with that because of estrogenic side effects.
With good T levels, guys with E2 similar to yours, do loose weight around their waists. However, there will be fat around the belly button/naval that is hard to loose. When they lower E2 into the lower 20’s, then there is progress loosing more of that fat.
You may be ‘subclinical hypothydoid’, which means that a doctor will not treat it.
When you take a SERM, T and E2 levels increase. SERM’s only block the actions of E in some ‘selected’ tissues. You would be better off with some anastrozole to reduce E2 to the lower 20’s. As your T levels are at high normal seen in TRT, you can use 1mg anastrozole per week in divided EOD doses. If you stop the SERM, you should reduce to 1/2 mg/week and cruise on that for a while to avoid estrogen rebound that will reduce your HPTA function.
If you stop a SERM suddenly, your estrogen receptors will see the E2 levels that were elevate by the SERM and shut you down. You need to slowly taper off of the SERM and the taper anastrozole 1.0 → 0.5
E2=38 would cause many of the problems you describe for guys on TRT with TT levels near yours. And when guy in that situation lower E2, the changes are huge, sort of like been reborn. E causes many things to wrong in the make brain, and the longer in that state, the worse.
If you are iodine deficient, that could explain your TSH and T4. Read the advice for new guys and find what I wrote about TSH, T3, T4, fT3, fT4, iodine, iodized salt, sea salt and checking your body temperatures. Post back here with body temperatures and your iodine intake.
We do not know your thyroid status. You really need TSH, fT3, fT3. However, if body temps are low, we know that you are functionally hypothyroid to some degree.
If you thyroid hormones are low, you can expect to have problems with fat and difficulty loosing fat.
And note that many of the symptoms of hypogonadism are shared by hypothyroidism. So you might have the effects of elevated E2 and low thyroid levels.
Do not do starvation diets, that can be very harmful. Do not go to zero fats, eat health fats.
-Check body temps and post
-post iodine intake
-post what SERM you are using, dose and duration
-If using clomid, try to switch to nolvadex.
Read the stickies and understand “anastrozole over-responder”.
Thank you so much KSman all I want in my life is to get my sex life back
I took Novaldex 20mg for 1 month only and stopped. Now I’m 2 months without serms
I took anastrozol half pill 2x per week for 2 weeks and didn’t see any result then I stopped
I will have my blood work wednesday and I will post it here.
I think I’m not hypothyroid because I don’t feel any symptons, nobody in my family had it and in the test I don’t have the antibodies that cause hypothyroid. But I do know that high E2 interfere in thyroid so maybe if my e2 decrease my thyroid would be better. I don’t feel cold like hypothyroid people feel. Don’t feel anything.
I think that these things happened to me because I was vegan I have eaten a lot of soy for 3 years and also I smoked a lot of marijuana
So if I am not taking serms I should try just 0.5 per week right? When I took it I took 0.5 wednesday and 0.5 saturday. I know a fat guy that has 38 estradiol and he is taking 1mg per day but he has testosterone level about 150.
Do you think if I lose fat and tapper anastrozole I can be fine definately? Because my belly is like a pregnant woman. Would be like a have a ball in my belly
You need to do as I suggested concerning thyroid. You ask for help then you make excuses. You may not feel cold, as you may be subclinical. And in that state, there can be problems. Do not go by what you feel.
-body temperature and report
-read related tyroid info relative to thyroid
-post your iodine intake, we need to know if you might be iodine deficient.
-test TSH, fT3, fT4
Get back on the anastrozole and do labs after 2-3 weeks or more to see what it is doing. Yes, 1/2 per week, then you will need lab work again for E2.
When were your labs done? While on SERM?
Belly fat, if you get your hormones balanced, eat right and balanced, and increase you physical activity, you will be able to loose some weight.
Do you have lab work for:
-fasting cholesterol
-fasting glucose
-RBC red blood cell counts
-hematocrit (HTC)
What is your blood pressure?
When you were a vegan, you probably had multiple amino acid and vitamin deficiencies. And I wonder about your current diet. You need to eat health fats. Your cholesterol might have been low and that would have negative effects on all of your steroid based hormones. Do you get sun exposure to make vitamin D? You also need essential fatty acids. Can you get fish oil capsules there?
My body temperature is 36.5 C°
My last TSH without taking serms was 2.22 or 2.44 and Ft4 was 1.4. That’s why I’m thinking that E2 desregulated my thyroid a little bit. Also I don’t have the antibodies at least 95% of the people who have hypothyroid has this antibodies.
I need to know more about iodine intake. Can I have it in blood work?
My blood presure is 12/7.
My cholesterol I think is 160 or 150. Glucose 88. Blood cell is fine according to my andrologist.
I eat everythig with Oliva oil I eat good fats. I am vitamin D deficient but I think I am because of the high e2. I read that if your hormones are OK you can easily get vitamin D.
Just forget about the high E2 for a second and consider the thyroid and vitamin D as separate issues. Supplement Vitamin D 6000-10000 a day to get it up. Get the thyroid tests KSMan suggests. My TSH was 2.5 or so and my Free T3 and free T4 were in the normal range, but my reverse T3 was top of the range. I am now on T3 with my free T3 at the top of the range and feel way better. Fat is coming off quicker than before, less braig fog, more energy. So even though my thyroid values were “normal” i was suffering from hypothyroid.
Lowering your E2 won’t magically fix your thyroid or low vitamin D, you need to treat the them as a seperate issues. Listen to KSMan, he really knows his shit about these things. When you constantly dismiss good advice and blame everything on high E2 you seem to be wasting everyone’s time who is trying to help you. Yes, your E2 needs to be lower, but you have many more issues potentially making you feel like shit and you need to look into them as well.
[quote]dbsmith wrote:
[quote]brazilianguy wrote:
Which conflicting information?
I’m hoping that my next exam my testosterone decrease a little bit to decrease my E2 too. I’m hoping that losing fat my e2 will go down. I saw a lot of people with 38 feeling what I feel. Do you know how I can avoid rebound effect from arimidex? I saw one guy that took arimidex for 12 months and then he stopped and his e2 didn’t get a rebound.
Other thing I think I don’t have hipogonadism primary or secondary since I responded well to serms and I’m trying a restart I saw people who used letrozol and had tappered off and got his e2 under control. Do you think I could have this same lucky? I’m sorry to disturb you but I’m very affraid I wanna get a girlfriend but I can’t with this moody and ED problems.[/quote]
Ha this is getting comical! Do you read other people’s replies?
I honestly can’t be any clearer. I can’t tell if you’re dense, to busy to actually read and comprehend what others have written or fucking with me but ZERO of what I’ve said has sunk in and this thread has been a complete waste of time because you just don’t seem to be “getting it”.[/quote]
BREATHE. EXHALE. BREATHE.
What is your A1C? It provides an index of average blood glucose for the previous three to four months instead of just one reading at time lab work.
How’s your libido when you watch movies about gladiators?
Conservative dog I hope that you feel the same thing I’m feeling just to stop saying stupid things.
My latest exam I’ll post here
T4 - 1.1 (min 0.8 - max 1.7)
TSH - 3.5 (min 0.45 - max 4.5) I don’t know why increased I had an exam that was 2.2
Antibodies - ATP - Negative
Total Testosterone - 862
Free Testosterone - 789
SHBG 26 (increased I don’t know why)
Prolactin 10 - (until 20) In another exam I had 6.80 I don’t know why increased
Estradiol 30
I don’t feel any better in my libido morning wood etc. I did lose some weight. I have some questions.
Do I need to lower my prolactin? Dostinex can do it definately? What can I do to reduce SHBG? I had 20 then with SERMS it went to 23 and now is 26. With e2 on 30 I don’t feel any difference and now I’m taking arimidex 0.5/week. I’m intending to start taking vitamin D supplements to see if I will feel any difference. Also I’m start thinking taking hypothyroid medicine but I’d like to know if it will make difference in libido, wood, or just will make me lose more fat. Because I just want to have a normal sex life. I’m sad because I thought that e2 on 30 I would feel a difference.
I’m two months without any serms and my testosterone is high I would like to do a restart do you think I’m able KSMAN? I was tooking just 1mg/week of arimidex
[quote]brazilianguy wrote:
Conservative dog I hope that you feel the same thing I’m feeling just to stop saying stupid things.
My latest exam I’ll post here
T4 - 1.1 (min 0.8 - max 1.7)
TSH - 3.5 (min 0.45 - max 4.5) I don’t know why increased I had an exam that was 2.2
Antibodies - ATP - Negative
Total Testosterone - 862
Free Testosterone - 789
SHBG 26 (increased I don’t know why)
Prolactin 10 - (until 20) In another exam I had 6.80 I don’t know why increased
Estradiol 30
I don’t feel any better in my libido morning wood etc. I did lose some weight. I have some questions.
Do I need to lower my prolactin? Dostinex can do it definately? What can I do to reduce SHBG? I had 20 then with SERMS it went to 23 and now is 26. With e2 on 30 I don’t feel any difference and now I’m taking arimidex 0.5/week. I’m intending to start taking vitamin D supplements to see if I will feel any difference. Also I’m start thinking taking hypothyroid medicine but I’d like to know if it will make difference in libido, wood, or just will make me lose more fat. Because I just want to have a normal sex life. I’m sad because I thought that e2 on 30 I would feel a difference.
I’m two months without any serms and my testosterone is high I would like to do a restart do you think I’m able KSMAN? I was tooking just 1mg/week of arimidex[/quote]
I seriously doubt your ed issues are e2 related. 30 is a good number and your test is high what more do you want. If you work out your ratio you are strongly androgen dominant.
You want to do a serm restart again? What for?? Look at your test numbers they look friggin good to me.
You are pre occupied with e2 that it is becoming debilitating for you.
Maybe start looking elsewhere for the cause, dht, psychological maybe I don’t know.
depending how you react to adex it might not take long at all to crash your e2 and then you might be left with the same symptoms maybe it has already happened to hard to make sense of it all when you never reply to questions.
Been telling you also to look into thyroid from the beginning maybe you will now.
Good to see you took the advice on getting ft3 ft4 levels checked.
I don’t think you even read what people post.
I read but here I found a guy that had the same numbers that I have and he is facing the same thing he used some prohormone and crashed the only difference was his prolactin that was 12.
I read everything
[quote]brazilianguy wrote:
Conservative dog I hope that you feel the same thing I’m feeling just to stop saying stupid things.
My latest exam I’ll post here
T4 - 1.1 (min 0.8 - max 1.7)
TSH - 3.5 (min 0.45 - max 4.5) I don’t know why increased I had an exam that was 2.2
Antibodies - ATP - Negative
Total Testosterone - 862
Free Testosterone - 789
SHBG 26 (increased I don’t know why)
Prolactin 10 - (until 20) In another exam I had 6.80 I don’t know why increased
Estradiol 30
I don’t feel any better in my libido morning wood etc. I did lose some weight. I have some questions.
Do I need to lower my prolactin? Dostinex can do it definately? What can I do to reduce SHBG? I had 20 then with SERMS it went to 23 and now is 26. With e2 on 30 I don’t feel any difference and now I’m taking arimidex 0.5/week. I’m intending to start taking vitamin D supplements to see if I will feel any difference. Also I’m start thinking taking hypothyroid medicine but I’d like to know if it will make difference in libido, wood, or just will make me lose more fat. Because I just want to have a normal sex life. I’m sad because I thought that e2 on 30 I would feel a difference.
I’m two months without any serms and my testosterone is high I would like to do a restart do you think I’m able KSMAN? I was tooking just 1mg/week of arimidex[/quote]
Please tell me what I said that in your opinion is stupid? Maybe you need to look at this from another angle.
Brazil wrote “all I want in my life is to get my sex life back” and “I’m sorry I’m desperate put yourself in my place I’m just 20 years old suffering from ED in the best part of my life”
Again what is it THAT I SAID that sounded stupid to you?
you said what is my libido when I watch gladiators
KSman do you think I can do well on a restart? Since taking just 20mg from novaldex made my tes went from 350 to more than 800 and my e2 didn’t go so high? Should I worry with my prolactin and my SHBG? both rised.
I would take thyroid medicine if necessary but first I would like to solve these other problems first I read that when the hormones are ballanced the thyroid changes too so I would like to see if I really need it. If so I would take it just to control my other hormones and live a normal life. I just want my libido back I can’t stand it anymore.
Your testosterone is great, forget this restart bullshit. If you don’t trea your thyroid you can look forward to your test tanking again. Your testosterone tanked initially for a reason. Follow the advice in all of the posts above and start digging to find out why. Testosterone and E2 would seem to be the least of your problems at this point. Check thyroid, cortisol, DHT, and all of the other suggestions given above.
I think it happened to me because I used to eat a lot of soy and nothing about good fat or cholesterol. I was vegan for 3 years, smoked a lot of pot and also used hypercalorics like whey protein, creatine and others. Since then my hormones became different. I will search if prolactin and estradiol has something in common with thyroid because I never had any problems with thyroid
[quote]brazilianguy wrote:
I think it happened to me because I used to eat a lot of soy and nothing about good fat or cholesterol. I was vegan for 3 years, smoked a lot of pot and also used hypercalorics like whey protein, creatine and others. Since then my hormones became different. I will search if prolactin and estradiol has something in common with thyroid because I never had any problems with thyroid[/quote]
Obviously a language barrier here.