T Nation

20-30mg Dbol and No SERM?


So, i joined another forum recently, mainly because I wanted to browse its information on IFG-1... but I ventured into its steroid forum and found an intresting thread where "a veteran" who is "About to go pro" is telling a newbie that he doesn't need an SERM with 20-30mg dbol for 4 weeks.

And a bunch of people are acting like this guys word is profound truth.

I learn more and more every day about AAS, and bodybuilding in general. But from day one of my research I've been under the impression that any form of AAS gets an SERM PCT at the very least.

Theres the thread, what do you guys think?


It started bad right from the beginning:

"Ill be starting my first roid cycle ever"


It depends on the person whether it is needed in terms of avoiding gyno and avoiding visible water retention or any problem the user himself can detect short of a blood test showing elevated estrogen (or in the case of Dianabol, it would be methylestradiol that was elevated.)

For example personally I can take 50 mg/day Dianabol with no SERM and have no detectable problem (in terms of effects that can be discerned). I've never had a GC/MS done while doing this so don't know what methylestradiol levels resulted, and don't know whether a typical test for estradiol will even pick up methylestradiol. Never had that done either under that condition. So as to blood levels, I don't know.

Doesn't mean that everyone can take that dose, or can take 30 mg/day with no problem. Better to have the SERM if not knowing one's susceptibility, or better yet an aromatase inhibitor at appropriate dose to actually not have the problem of elevated estrogen in the first place.


I think the OP was specifically talking about a SERM to use for PCT. Any thoughts on that issue?


I was just sort of appalled that so-called "Veterans" of another forum were telling a new guy "You don't need an SERM for this" and telling him that he will keep most of his gains and a bunch of other shit. I guess browsing this forum for so long has just got me spoiled on informative and safe procedures concerning AAS.


Here we pretty much tell everyone to do a PCT with anything and everything.

Truth is if you use low enough levels of any steroid your shutdown will be proportional.

You can technically run test or deca or anything with very little shutdown if you run it low enough and for a short enough stretch, granted that dose will be very small and will not do much if anything.

I would never recommend a short, lower dose, dbol only cycle to a new user, and I certainly would never risk running something that is so known for aromatisation issues without an AI or at least SERM.

That doesn't mean people don't do it. People used trib and other crap to recover from M1T and superdrol cycles that were 5 weeks or more for the longest time, and likely still do despite the ease of obtaining SERMs.

Theres not a huge difference in shutdown between dbol and many prohormones/prosteroids.

If anything superdrol/M1T causes more shutdown because dbol has a shorter half life I believe.


I just like how he's going to start his "first roid cycle ever this Monday", but then asks what his diet and training should look like. I'd put off the "roids" until I had my diet and training down.


oh if you go down to the second page he posts his diet and its horrendous. He ate like 1500 kcal his first day.


holy fucking shit its Bill Roberts!