T Nation

2 Weeks In, Too Early to Switch from E3D to EOD?

I’m not loving this every 3 day stuff… 50mg test cypionate IM injection. Mostly glutes and a couple of leg pins so far. It’s only been 2 weeks but I feel ok’ish the day I take my injection and then not so great the next couple of days. Maybe it’s just placebo and not doing anything as of yet… I am getting stronger erections and my libido is up but everything else is still junk.

Is it going to do any harm or prolong anything if I switch to EOD 36mg? Then at least I’ll know I’m on a protocol that’s in theory (and in practice?) one of the most stable.

That’s very similar to me. Switching from e3d to eod had immediate helpful effects. I now take 35mg eod. I still have some hormone fluctuation issues (brain fog, pulsing feelings, insomnia, etc). But it did get slightly better with that change from e3d to eod. My understanding is that it will only help. You may still have a waiting period before you know if it’s optimal. But it will be better than e3d.

Two weeks is not long enough to judge any protocol.

IMO, you are better off seeing how you are when your body optimizes at between 6 and 8 weeks rather than switching gears so early. If you switch and end up in the same place (or worse) in another 3 weeks, what will you do?

If you then wait the full 6 or 8 weeks on that protocol you won’t have this to compare it to if you are still unsatisfied.

TRT is very unpredictable, so to me it’s just about being efficient in your own “testing”.

Excellent advice!

A question to the OP. Do you know your SHBG level? Guys who have low SHBG tend to metabolize T much faster. I fhtat’s the case, then E2D, or even daily injections might be more helpful. I’d start there with a SHBG test and if it is low, then perhaps there is justification for changing protocol early.

Well it sounds like things are going as expected only two weeks into TRT, your levels are fluctuating and natural T is declining and if anything levels are lower as your natural T is getting closer to being shut down.

This would be starting from scratch and the last two weeks was all for nothing and 6 weeks till levels are stable. I agree if SHBG is on the lower end an EOD protocol might be best, if SHBG was 30 or higher, I would stay on course.

I have low SHBG (<20) and 31% body fat and feel good and respond much better on an EOD protocol.

I’m going to have this tested in about a week… 18th I see the doc and then as soon as the trough hits I’ll do the bloodwork; Total T, Free T, SHGB, Estradiol… I think some Thyroid tests and maybe prolactin. And he usually tests a bunch of other stuff as well.

My last SHGB test was Jan 2019 and I wasn’t on TRT. Not sure if it’s at all relevant now…

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
60.7 (10.0 - 70.0) nmol/L

I figured that I wasn’t being patient enough… but I’ve been feeling terrible for a long time so to wait another 6-8 weeks after waiting 6-8 weeks seems unbearable. Thank you for the advice.

How long were you on E3D before you switched over to EOD? Thank you for your insights.

I’m going to have this tested in about a week… 18th I see the doc and then as soon as the trough hits I’ll do the bloodwork; Total T, Free T, SHGB, Estradiol… I think some Thyroid tests and maybe prolactin. And he usually tests a bunch of other stuff as well.

My last SHGB test was Jan 2019 and I wasn’t on TRT. Not sure if it’s at all relevant now…

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
60.7 (10.0 - 70.0) nmol/L

I figured that I wasn’t being patient enough… but I’ve been feeling terrible for a long time so to wait another 6-8 weeks after waiting 6-8 weeks seems unbearable. Also taking Creatine ~3.5g / day and always thinking that maybe I shouldn’t be…Thank you for the advice.

Doing labs before 6 weeks has elapsed on your current protocol is pointless and therefore checking progress at midpoint isn’t really useful because hormone levels will be higher at 6 weeks versus at 3 weeks.

You always run labs after 6 weeks on the same dosage, if you change the dosage levels are unstable for 6 weeks.

Got it… I’ll get him to date it for mid April. Thks.

I’m going to be moving to EOD but want to understand dosages. E3D calculation can only be taken over a 2wk period as one week will be higher than the other. The current dosage is 50mg every 3rd day which equals 250mg every 2 wks (150mg in the highest week).

When moving to EOD am I matching this 250mg over 2 weeks which would be 31-32mg or am I looking to match the highest week from the E3D calculation (150mg) which would be 37-38mg? Maybe it doesn’t matter (approx. 6-7mg difference) and I should just go with the higher dose EOD but I thought I would ask anyway… thank you for your help.

Just take your dose and divide by 3.

Why do you have to involve a 2nd week? And why 250mg every 2 weeks and not 300mg split 6 times for 50mg a dose? Stick to the exact same dose every injection.

For EOD, take you dose (150mg) and divide by 3.5 for a dose of 43mg (or round up to 45mg). Stick with it 8-12 weeks and reassess if need be.

Why do you have to involve a 2nd week? And why 250mg every 2 weeks and not 300mg split 6 times for 50mg a dose?

I was prescribed 50mg E3D so that works out to 250mg in a 14 day period. If you do the calculation E3D doesn’t give you the same dosage in a 7 day period (weekly). Example: Wed 50mg, Sat 50mg, Tue 50mg (1st week = 150mg), Fri 50mg, Mon 50mg, Tue 0mg, (2nd week = 100mg). So that’s what I’ve been following which equals 250mg over 14 days or 150mg in the first 7 days and 100mg in the second 7 days.

If I do the same exercise for 45mg over a 14 day period: Wed 45mg, Fri 45mg, Sun 45mg, Tue 45mg, Thu 45mg, Sat 45mg, Mon 45mg, Tue 0mg, that equals 315mg which is quite a bit higher than what I’ve been taking over 14 days.

Does it matter if I go from 250mg to 315mg over a 14 day period? Possibly my GP will think I’m abusing the script. That’s why I’m asking questions… maybe they’re unecessary but I’m trying to get this right this time.

Ah, I was thinking 3x/week. My bad, you’re correct it would be like Mon 50mg, Thurs 50mg, Sun 50mg, Tues 50mg, Fri 50mg = 250mg. You then are really at 125mg/week. Testosterone carries over days so can’t say one week is necessarily more than another week if a consistent protocol.

Yes. Don’t change anything unless you’re willing to commit 2-3 months, not just 14 days. Any change in dose resets your body from hormonal homeostasis.

If you do commit to EOD, you can do 35mg every dose.

Are you feeling better certain days than other? Feeling fluctuations? If not, maybe you need a higher FT to feel good, which would require a higher dose. Most people need 150-200mg a week to achieve 30+ FT (where most people feel best at). The main problem at higher doses is the fluctuations one may feel, but reduces the peaks and troughs through more frequent smaller doses will fix that.

250mg over 14 days is 35.71mg on QOD. Just take the 2 weeks dose and divide by 7 (there’s seven injection days in 2 weeks on QOD schedule).

You guys are really overthinking things. Stop thinking in weeks.

Dosing should always be cyclical: every day, every other day, every 3 days, every 4 days or every x days, etc.

If your prescription is 125mg every 7 days and you want to inject every other day, then your every other day dose is 35.7mg as @swoops39 stated.

125mg / 7 days = 17.86 Per day. Multiply that by 2 for every other day = 35.7mg

Thanks… yes; feeling tired certain days more than others but I’m also doing a lot of cardio which I alternate days with lifting. I’ve also had some hot flashes on certain days. It’s hard to tell what’s working when you’re only in your 5th week of TRT and I won’t be able to get bloodwork for another couple of weeks.

Anyway, improvements have been small or negligible on my current protocol and I’m assuming my bloodwork will show that. I am interested in seeing the E2 marker as I’m getting some hot flashes.

Regardless, at the 6th week or possibly even this week, I may boost to 45mg EOD. I’m not a big guy so I’m not sure if that matters in relation to dosage. I’m 5’10" 154lbs. So possilby the low end of the spectrum you listed above will work better for me. And yes I would rather be committing to a new protocol now (2-3 months) than feel not so great for another month or two before I make a change.

I’d honestly just do 3x a week with whatever level you decide, Mon/Wed/Fri or something similar so you aren’t trying to remember what your schedule is each week. It’s easy at first but like 13 weeks in it can all start blurring together

Do you notice a pattern which day you feel better on? Regardless it’s still too early. Complete 8 weeks and after that take a week or two to assess how you feel. I’d write in a journal everyday how you feel upon waking up, how you feel around noon, and how you feel in the evening.

The only real benefit from bloodwork at this point is seeing your Free-T on a trough. If you’re well below 30 pg/mL then I would increase the weekly dose to somewhere that would get you closer to 30+. 125mg/week is on the low side. Personally, I need way more to feel good and same with many people here.