I've decided to go on a 50mg/day 2 week on 2 week off cycle; for 3 successions. Originally I was dabbling with the thought of an anadrol/winstrol split. But I have never experienced the magic of Dbol, one of the founding steroids.
My goals are 10lbs of lean mass, I weight 245 @ 6'3 12% bodyfat and don't want to get to big because I play rugby and need to get around the field.
I have two questions/concerns.
For such a short cycle, is a pct necessary? Gyno is not to big of an issue for me because I've already had the surgery to remove the tissue, however I am aware there is a possibility it can return.
Dbol is my choice of drug (because tbol wasnt available), but if the merits of drol/winstrol greatly out weight dbol from anyones experience, I would like to hear it.
50 mg of dbol is going to aromatise into large amount of methyl estradiol, you probably won't experience gyno issue, since you had surgery, but it is not good to have this much synthetic estrogen in your body. I'd say go with 30mg per day + 0.5mg Anastrozole.
If taking only 2 weeks off and doing several in succession then it is definitely preferable to use Clomid or Nolvadex in at least the off weeks. There will be recovery even if not doing so, but cumulatively over time, total LH production per month would have to be a lot less due to being suppressed half the time, partially recovered perhaps 1/4 of the time, and fully recovered only perhaps 1/4 of the time.
Whereas with the PCT, LH production can be above normal in the off weeks, resulting in no cumulative effect towards testicular atrophy.
I have not measured total LH over the course of a month: the above is based on whether multiple successive such cycles result in slowly accumulating testicular atrophy or not (yes with no PCT; no with PCT.)
Con@n i was wondering - have you actually read the main article about this protocol? The reason i ask is simply because the questions you ask have all been covered in depth there.
Do you need the link?
(if you haven't, then i wonder where you heard of this protocol and what made you decide to use it? The article in question is the only properly recorded example i know of, and as such is invaluable reading to someone wanting to run like this. JMO)
Are you referring to the article by Bill Roberts on the Mesomorphosis site? I've read that one but wondered if he made any changes since. I remember also Alex Filippides (sp?) reported on a 2 on, 4 off cycle in "Dirty Dieting" many moons ago.
Thanks for the reply, Bill. Referring to the OP's plan to run 50mg/day of dbol, would there be less inhibition of natural test production if he took a single dose in the morning compared to spacing out the dosage throughout the day? I'm guessing that gains would be less with a single daily dose, though.
Yes, there would be. There seems to be, contrary to what one might expect, little inhibition of natural testosterone production when Dianabol is taken in this manner at up to that dose.
While not a fan of Dianabol-only, as it's certainly not the most effective way to go, it also would be unreasonable of me to disrespect it. Certainly in the way-back times that was commmonly enough done with reasonable results by many. I would rather see it used that way for 6 weeks straight, then some time off, than in the 2 on / 2 off format. The latter is intended really for kick-ass stacks. I don't know that cumulatively with time it might not work as well with Dianabol-only as Dianabol-only will ever do, but also don't know that it does.
An idea might be to run 6 weeks straight morning only, take some time off, and then if desired try the 2 on / 2 off multiple times with divided dose Dianabol. If going into the 2 on / 2 off, I'd be comfortable with only 4 weeks between the 6 weeks and the 2 on / 2 off. If wanting to repeat the 6 weeks, I'd give it a full 6 weeks off.
Interesting. I would think that the idea of six weeks of single daily dose orals with, perhaps, four weeks off might be the way to go for a lifter who is willing to accept slow and steady gains but absolutely wants to avoid the ups and downs of stopping and re-starting natural test production.
In the 2 on 4 off case study you presented on the meso-rx site, a serm and AI was used thru almost the entire 6 weeks. If doing a cycle of 6 weeks of single daily dose orals followed by a few weeks off, would one still run a serm and AI almost continuously? And if so, what doses would be run? I'm just guessing that a low dose would be used with the single daily dose protocol.
Apologies to the OP if this is getting off subject. Its just that whenever I see someone inquire about 2on 2off or 2on 4off, I assume that:
1) the lifter is willing to accept slow and steady gains, and 2) would like for natural test production to be inhibited for as little time as possible.
In that case study, and in general as well, the principal reason for the SERM during the cycle was because there was no way to know the person's tolerance to increased estrogen levels.
(A secondary reason that few seem to care about is improved blood lipid profile.)
If confident of one's ability to handle 50 mg/day Dianabol without a SERM and without an AI, as many can, it would be acceptable to do so. These days, other than the blood lipid issue, I would rather see letrozole used than a SERM. Perhaps an ideal situation would be low dose (e.g. half the usual) SERM plus letrozole. I am wanting to see, at least in my own case, what half dose Clomid may do for blood lipid profile but have not done so as yet.
On the once-daily dosing for 6 weeks, or any period of time, there probably is no need for a SERM at all post-cycle, if it is the case for the individual that testosterone was not suppressed.