T Nation

2 Questions for Ya:


#1

1) How much fish oil should I be taking a day.
With all the lifting I take Flameout 4x a day I've heard of ppl taking more. but 4x a day should be enough?

2) What's better for strength/size
Dips or skullcrushers?

Thanks.


#2
  1. It depends on your goals, but I personally try to get about 1/3 of my fat intake from PUFA’s, of which fish oil is my primary source. If you are looking for specific numbers, right now I am taking in about 30g per day while on a mass gaining phase. I suppose you could equate this to about 0.15g per lb of body weight.

  2. Seriously? Dips will recruit WAY more muscle fibers and will thus be better for strength/size gains. I am assuming since your other option is skull crushers you are looking to build up the triceps, so just make sure you keep your torso upright to minimize chest involvement. This is not to say that skull crushers aren’t a good exercise - I would suggest doing them as well later on in the workout.

DT


#3

Thanks Dan! I’ll hit the dips for my tri exercise.
I am gaining mass now…still confused if 4 Flameout fish oil capsules is enough or not…LOL
But I guess I can get those other fatty acids from other foods…almonds? yeah?


#4

as you can see i have not a clue about nutrition. other than to eat.


#5

Just remember that fish oil is an anti-inflammatory, so I wouldn’t take it a few hours before and after training, since muscle building is in itself an inflammatory process. If you’re taking Omega 6s too, it would balance it out.

  1. Why not both?

#6

Dips for the short head, skullcrushers for the long head.


#7

[quote]Artem wrote:
Just remember that fish oil is an anti-inflammatory, so I wouldn’t take it a few hours before and after training, since muscle building is in itself an inflammatory process. If you’re taking Omega 6s too, it would balance it out.
[/quote]

I don’t think that means what you think it means…


#8

I take 1 Flameout + 3 no names with every meal, except my PWO.

Omega 6’s are INFLAMMATORY, and most people shouldn’t go out of their way to ingest any extra.

S


#9

[quote]esk221 wrote:
Dips for the short head, skullcrushers for the long head. [/quote]

I ride the short bus.


#10

i can’t afford Flameout anymore, or any fish oil for that matter. does this mean my body is going to become crippled?


#11

Weighted dips + CGBP for overall mass. Stu i PM’ed you w/ a Q.


#12

OKay, here’s CYRUSEVEN75’s PM (Hope he doesn’t mind my putting it up here -lol)

Hey Stu,

just picking you lock a bit. My lady hates the fish oil pills, they make me smell, either burps or through the pores. Anyway, she’s vegetarian and trains as well so we’ve got flax seed oil pills. i’m wondering if my shoulder tendinitis might be aggravated by the omega 6 in the flax.

Also regardless of 3 or 6 it’s a going to slow digestion correct hence the avoidance PWO.

I’ve tried the no burp kind from GNC and still they stunk. I’m a supplement experimenter, e.g. I love to read and research the methodology behind these supplements. For instance I like Beta Alanine pre and post it had benefited my endurance/strength.

Do you recognize a notable difference w/ fish oil in your regimen, if so, how so?

I actually never really gave the whole omega3/fish oil thing too much credit until I had really bad pain in my rt forearm. It was reoccurring, and would flare up from time to time and just put a damper on my training. Eventually, once my brother had established himself as a DPT, I asked his opinion. So when I had off from work, I started going in for PT several times a week. We did muscle stim, laser work, traditional PT exercises, you name it. We also had an MRI done just to make sure nothing was really ‘amiss’. The bottom line was simply a chronic inflammation in the area. I had used flax oil when I first started training simply to add more calories to my blender concoctions (I had no clue what it was though!). A few years later, I would actually toss a handful of whole flax seed in my oatmeal, thinking I was being super-healthy-bodybuilder-guy, and that this would make some sort of difference in the long run (I wasn’t actually sure what exactly). I knew by this point, that flax was regarded as a good source of healthy fats, but had read (probably on here, and more than likely from something Thibs or Berardi wrote) that fish oils were a better source, and if you were ingesting a decent quantity, that flax was really unnecessary. I had seen the little ads for Flameout on here many times at this point, but to be honest, I didn’t really think there was anything magical about some super-potent fish oils capsules. Well, one day the pain in my arm got so bad, I just caved, and ordered a few bottles. I sh-t you not, within a few weeks, I could totally feel improvement. I mentioned this to my brother’s boss (a very knowledgeable and highly experienced PT), and pretty soon, he was popping them as well. Eventually I had to start adding in some BJ’s brand fish oils to the mix, simply because I couldn’t afford so many bottles of Flameout a month in addition to my staple supplements (met drive, and protein bars), but if there is one supplement on here, besides the basic protein type stuff, that I would recommend to anyone, it would be Flameout.

As far as Omega 6 causing inflammation,… you have to realize that we get 6’s in a lot of the foods we eat, and so many of the medical issues we face nowadays are actually inflammation related (I’m no doctor here, let me just point that out!). Hell, that was the whole concept behind ‘X-Factor’, by molecular nutrition. It was supposed to actually INCREASE the inflammatory response in muscle cells after a workout, thereby creating more of a repair/growth response from the body. They even warned that if you have existing injuries, they’re going to hurt a lot more! -lol. If you suspect that you may be getting a pro-inflammatory diet, you may want to take a good look at your food choices, and try switching a few selections out and seeing what happens.

The absorption issue is simple… anytime you mix macronutrients, the digestion rate will slow a bit. Specifically, fat has a reputation for slowing digestion. Yes, I avoid fish oils PWO. Could I be overreacting? Sure, but I’m okay with it :slight_smile:

As to the burping issue,… well, I usually try to pop my capsules before I eat, so that the food sort of covers it up in my stomach. Again, I may be over thinking something completely stupid, but my apartment doesn’t stink of fish, so I’m okay with it -lol.

On a side note, I did order a couple of the Curcumin, so I’m very curious to see how it works with the Flameout.

S


#13

thanks Stu…glad i didn’t PM you about my genital warts, just kidding the ointment cleared that right up. No worries man, it’s legs day tomorrow!!!


#14

Thanks for the replies guys…I’m gonna do the Dips…cause I already do closegrip benchpress too so, was jut lookin for more overall development.

So Stu…how come you don’t take Flameout PWO? I take Flameout with my meal an hour after my workout with a BIG meal…is this bad?

Pretty much I just take the prescribed 4 pills a day. That should be enough right?

I don’t take Flameout in the morning bceause I don’t want my body to use that for energy (the fat). So I eat a bigbreakfst take Flameout pill with my 2nd meal, and then throughout the day.

I definaetly think I notice a difference. On this program I’m on its pretty intense and I have NO elbow pain at all and I’m doin a shitload of pressing. And I’m also using heavyweight.

I’ve been takin it for a couple months straight now…it is a bit pricey but well worth it if it makes the differnece.

thanks!


#15

to answer for stu, no PWO because because mixing macronutrients slows digestion. arguments can be made for both sides, the ideology is PWO you want quick delivery and fat slows digestion. again experiment see what your body responds to best. I avoid fats upon waking, I hit a simple carb and protein (whey)to zap me out of potential catabolic state, then have a real breakfast after i’m up and moving.

connversly, i’m being cheap lately so at bed instead of casein i’ll finish the day w/ protein and fats to slow digestion while i sleep, as i said, experiment and see what works for you.


#16

IMO 30g of fish oil is way too much and not necessary. For almost everyone, 3-12g a day will do the trick.


#17

[quote]dankid wrote:
IMO 30g of fish oil is way too much and not necessary. For almost everyone, 3-12g a day will do the trick. [/quote]

Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but can I ask why you feel this way? As I stated a bit earlier in this thread, my reason for personally consuming this amount is primarily to balance the fat sources in my diet.

I am on a fairly high fat intake right now and try to get about 1/3 of my daily [fat] intake from PUFA’s, of which I am hard-pressed to come up with a better source than fish oil. We also need to look at the combined EPA/DHA intake. Being pretty frugal (to put it mildly), I use Nature Made brand fish oil from Costco which has 720mg combined EPA/DHA per serving (2g per serving).

This would mean I am only getting approx. 10,800 mg of EPA/DHA per day, which doesn’t seem to unreasonable. Besides, if the goal is to balance out the Omega 3’s and 6’s in one’s diet, I see no reason why one should be weary of excess fish oil, aside from possibly budgetary concerns. I have personally used up to 45g per day and had no adverse side effects.

When you think about it, fish oil is not some crazy new wonder drug or test-tube developed supplement. It is a naturally occurring source of fuel which also has some pretty impressive health benefits and has been around for years.

The only thing I would be cautious of when mega-dosing is if you are using cod-liver oil (which is a cheaper yet viable alternative in some cases), since it contains vitamin A and therefore may become toxic if it is taken in too high of quantities. But back to the intended point: fish oil is basically fat. Just because it comes in pills and bottles doesn’t mean it’s going to hurt you if you take a bit more than recommended.


#18

[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
thanks Stu…glad i didn’t PM you about my genital warts,![/quote]

Yeah, I’m glad you didn’t either!

S


#19

[quote]Dan Thompson wrote:
dankid wrote:
IMO 30g of fish oil is way too much and not necessary. For almost everyone, 3-12g a day will do the trick.

Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but can I ask why you feel this way? As I stated a bit earlier in this thread, my reason for personally consuming this amount is primarily to balance the fat sources in my diet.

I am on a fairly high fat intake right now and try to get about 1/3 of my daily [fat] intake from PUFA’s, of which I am hard-pressed to come up with a better source than fish oil. We also need to look at the combined EPA/DHA intake. Being pretty frugal (to put it mildly), I use Nature Made brand fish oil from Costco which has 720mg combined EPA/DHA per serving (2g per serving).

This would mean I am only getting approx. 10,800 mg of EPA/DHA per day, which doesn’t seem to unreasonable. Besides, if the goal is to balance out the Omega 3’s and 6’s in one’s diet, I see no reason why one should be weary of excess fish oil, aside from possibly budgetary concerns. I have personally used up to 45g per day and had no adverse side effects.

When you think about it, fish oil is not some crazy new wonder drug or test-tube developed supplement. It is a naturally occurring source of fuel which also has some pretty impressive health benefits and has been around for years.

The only thing I would be cautious of when mega-dosing is if you are using cod-liver oil (which is a cheaper yet viable alternative in some cases), since it contains vitamin A and therefore may become toxic if it is taken in too high of quantities. But back to the intended point: fish oil is basically fat. Just because it comes in pills and bottles doesn’t mean it’s going to hurt you if you take a bit more than recommended.[/quote]

Ya, i see where you are coming from, i just dont think that much is necessary. There is always the possible risk that your fish oil has traces of mercury or other toxins. Im hoping that if you are taking this much you are at least cycling it with a differnt brand. The costco stuff is pretty cheap, so thats not a huge issue, but like I said i just dont think its necessary.

With a good amount of fish oil, some olive oil, and then fats from meats, i think everything would be fine. But as you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it probably wont cause you any problems in the long run.


#20

[quote]dankid wrote:

With a good amount of fish oil, some olive oil, and then fats from meats, i think everything would be fine. But as you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it probably wont cause you any problems in the long run.
[/quote]
I think you bring up a good point here in that it is always smart to ensure that a person is using a variety of fat (and overall food) sources in their diet. While I do have an affinity for fish oil, I still make sure to balance it out with healthy doses of olive oil, mixed nuts/natural PB, coconut oil (which is quite possibly the most delicious of all oils), and good old fashioned animal fats (what would I do without a good ribeye every now and then?).

So yes, while we do have differing opinions on the minor details, I think we can agree that in the bigger picture, ensuring a healthy balance of fat sources is key to success.