T Nation

2 On 2 Off Cycle On the Comeback


#1

Hey all, been a long time. So I'm about to go on another two-weeker-type cycle. I wrote a thread about two week cycles a while ago which lasted a bit. I ended up quite injured while training for PL but am now back and on the attack.

My current stats:
6'0"
220lbs
BF: not lean, but far from fat also
Lifting for a long ass time
cycles: on and off for 13 years

Goals for this cycle plan:

Get bigger and stronger (haven't lost much size since my injury, but strength ain't so good)
Look good for my wedding/honeymoon (end of cycle 3)
See how I respond to drol. I have used all other substances in this cycle.

I don't know if I'll be training for PL, but for now, I just want to get big and strong and then lean out for my wedding/honeymoon. Which will happen right at the end of cycle 3.

Cycle 1:

Day 1-12 75mg/day Test P
Day 1-13 50mg/day Adrol
HCG throughout 250IU eod

1 week nolva 20/day
1 week off

Cycle 2
Day 1-12 75mg/day Test P
Day 1-14 50mg/day Dbol
HCG throughout 250IU eod

1 week nolva 20/day
1 week off

Cycle 3-5
Day 1-12 75mg/day Test P
Day 1-12 75mg/day TA
HCG throughout 250iu eod

1 week nolva 20/day
1 week off

4-6 week break

Oh yeah AI: I'll be running adex somewhere around .5-1mg/day I have found that dbol really makes my nips tingle, and makes greasy and bloaty, so I will probably start at around 1/day for dbol and adrol cycles, but test seems to not have this effect quite so much, so I will start at .5/day with the test/ta cycles.


#2

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/2_on_2_off_experiment?id=3103008&pageNo=0

original thread


#3

Changed my mind.

Where are all the mad chemists around here?


#4

Bump. Also, I played around on roidcalc, and my TP dosing will actually look more like

175 175 75 75 75 75 75 75 75 75 50

Frontload, and ending day 11, not 12. This will result in stable blood levels, and non-suppressive levels on day 15


#5

I have only used Drol once but even 75 mg/day (half morning/half lunch/half night) switch to 50mg seccond week (half morning/half night) got me hell strong in two weeks, a little strong in 1.5 weeks, slightly stronger in 1 week.

In terms of permanent muscle growth from 2 week drol cycle I would expect to see not much from the drol that is.

two on off i would use 75mg first week to help kick in 50mg seccond week.

Two off

two on repeat 75/50.

I wouldnt switch to dbol I would think you have more chance of permanent oral muscle growth if you use the same compound plus drol seems to give me better results and longer half life easier to take.

And drol didnt upset my stomache like dbol which is/was a big plus

For such a short run of TA I would DEFINETLY frontload it as well (half life about 24 hours I think)

You only have less than 2 weeks of cut though after the 4 weeks of bulk, i would streach it out as far as possible. 17 days even instead of 12.

You have a lot of cycle experience how much cut do you know you can achieve in 12 days without catabolising all the muscle you just built which would then be counterproductive.

Tough call


#6

BTW

Drol actually doesnt aromatize or convert to estrogen but does cause estrogenic sides, so the adex wont help here (but will help with the test p obviously)


#7

For such short cycles, why not up the dose for the test? And would you need that much HCG throughout the cycle? It seems to me like you wouldn't "need" any at all in this case.

And what do you think about adding some winny into the last cycle too?:wink:


#8

I will definitely need an AI at that dose of test. I know this of myself.

I looked at my notes from the previous cycles, and I said I wanted some HCG, so I'll listen to myself on that.

Having rocked 100mg/day of suspension, I went past my cost/benefit ratio on that particular drug. This is a good dose for me. I might consider rocking 100mg/day of the drol though... I might also up the tren.

Winny: I have considered it. I literally flipped a coin and drol won on this run. Winny next time.


#9

I meant the winny in the third mini=cycle with the tren, where you plan to cut. I think that combo'd cut you up nicely. Just a thought...

And having never done the series of short cycles, I'm just curious: Your nuts still shrink a lot on them? I was thinking about doing one down the road just because it's supposed to be easier to recover from


#10

I like both of these ideas you will definetly get more results! (and more sides)

Bloat was quite high for me 75 mg Adrol though and i can take 1g sust with barable bloat and no AI.

Don't know if youll like that.

Is the AI that you use mostly for bloat or estro sides+gyno?


#11

Estro sides/gyno. I've never had any swelling, but my nips get sensitive as hell, and I won't risk it going further than that. I guess 75 mg drol is an option as well, and probably the smarter play.

As far as running a gram of sust with no AI: WHY? I imagine if you're not getting estro sides of some sort at that level, then you may have to look at the legitimacy of your supplier.


#12

@jacked I did get SOME very limited test atrophy when I was on high dose test suspension and halo. Even on this combo though, recovery seems to be mega fast though, and I definitely have no issues heading into the next cycle. I am going to try running HCG during on times this time around so that I can compare the recovery to when I was not running HCG but running serms in off periods.

Also, I should note that everything here is completely subjective, as I'm not getting monthly blood work done. I can tell you that one month after running several 2 on 2 offs as outlined in the thread I linked back to, my bloodwork was good.


#13

Good questions iI'll explain...

My cycle is actually 875mg sust, 980 mg EQ, 577 mg tren a. per week

Very clean low carb cutting diet and small ED injects, 4 coffees a day and cardio take care of a lot of the bloat and mood problems. The first 3 weeks or so are a bitch but then I get used to it.

If my diet is not in control or 2x week injects, I blow up like a blow fish on 700mg just test per week.

Know ppl using the same stuff, know how gear feels and trust me, its the strongest and cleanest ive ever used.

Impossible to get AI where I am...otherwise I would trust me.

I still bloat of course and people notice when I mention it, just its manageable and not bad for me.

3.5 weeks on cycle today, 7 kilo weight gain while cutting on 70 gram carbs per day. Gear is real trust me.


#14

Interesting. I wonder if there are any "natural" compounds that have an AI type effect.

And those dosage numbers... certainly not round, and with the ED injects, its not some effect of e3d injects or something. Did you put everything you had in a bottle, shake it up and do the math? Not being a jerk, just wondering...

Oh, and response to your earlier question: I have no idea how much cut I can get in any time period. I've been bulking for 13 years, with interruptions by Uncle Sam.


#15

Nahh thats cool.

Sust=250 mg/ml 0.5ml/day=125mg * 7 days = 875mg/week
EQ=200 mg/ml 0.7ml/day=140mg * 7 days = 980mg/week
Tren Ace= 75mg/ml 1.1ml/day=82.5mg * 7 days = 577.5 mg/week

Thats it pretty much.


#16

your similar height/body composition to me by the sounds of it or I may be more bf @ 20%.

Its very hard to cut alot of fat in two weeks without loosing mucle, even on gear especially new muscle.

As after those two weeks on tren and test, you will be technically off.

More catabolic and if your still trying to cut, youll loose new muscle, I can almost
guarentee that.

I lost some muscle on 100mg winny per day, you sound like you might be still trying to cut
after the test/tren=bad idea (but I may be wrong im not sure which weeks you will actually
be cutting in your cycle).

If you can streach it you will get much better results if you can manage in your schedule:

2 on, 2 off, 2 on, 2 off test/Adrol (bulk)
2 on, 2 off, 2 on, 2 off test/Tren (cut)

Or do one 2 weeker with anadrol to get a feel for it and two two weekers with tren. Youll
still grow on that. Tren is good for low cal growth and if all else is check, you may be able
to get leaner without actually cutting (bonus).

A 2 week cut i wouldnt really expect noticable results unless a lot of muscle was lost and thats sort of pointless.

Just trying to help


#17

OK. Maybe I have not been clear. My overall goal hear is to lean out while preserving strength and muscle mass, over the course of 3+ months. I get from what you're saying here, that when you're saying "cut" you are thinking all-out calorie deprivation etc, ala bodybuilding competitors. I'm probably around 15%ish right now and want to get to 10%ish. I plan on doing this with a combination of common sense diet manipulation (including some calorie reduction, but probably no lower than 2500kcal), an increase in cardio, including sprints, tabatas, and on SSC session/week, and drugs.

I have found in the past that the positive effects of the 2 weekers continue through most of the "off" time, and I do not plan to change my diet based on on or off weeks during this period.

Make sense?


#18

Yes Im with you now sorry mate your right, I did misunderstand you.

I thought you were of the traditional BB Bulk/cut eating/training but actually your going for a consistent diet/training regime for continuous steady results. Souns good!

You should get good results and Ill be watching and intrested to see how you go as im looking to start 2 on/2off type of cycle maybe next year.


#19

Thanks! I saw your thread. You're a bit bigger than I am, eh?

Did you check out the thread from my last 2 on/off cycle? There's some good info there.


#20

Yeah now just need to get leaner!

I have now :slight_smile: and I may cut this cycle of mine short and change it to a 2 on 2 off for longer time...Replace eq with mast...and sust with prop.

Decisions, Decisions.

How are things going?