T Nation

2 Cycles in a Row w/out PCT Before 2nd


#1

I'm planning on running a cycle of Dianabol (injectable) and Testosterone Propionate. I'm running the Dianabol for 3.5 weeks at 20mg a day and the Testosterone Propionate for 12 weeks at 170mg every other day. And I want to start another Cycle of just Winstrol (injectable) and Clen (not including on cycles and pct) right after my cycle without doing a pct first.
Here's my plan
Dianabol and Testosterone Propionate Cycle:

  • Dianabol 20mg everyday for 3.5 weeks

  • Testosterone Propionate 166mg (170 to be even) every other day for 12 weeks

  • Arimidex 1mg every other day for 3.5 weeks (during Dbol portion of cycle)
    .5mg every other day for the remainder of the cycle

  • Hcg 250iu - 350iu ever other day (along with Test P) for remaining 4 weeks of cycle

Post cycle:

  • Nolvadex 6 week plan
    40mg everday for 3 weeks
    20mg everday for 3 weeks

I'm wondering if I should continue taking hcg throughout the Winstrol Cycle (to prevent Testicular Atrophy) and how much should I be taking? I also wanted to take suggestions on the length and dosage of my Winstrol cycle. Also I was planning on keeping the pct with Nolvadex the same or maybe just changing it to an 8 week plan taking 40mg everday for 4 weeks and the 20mg a day for the remaining 4 weeks.


#2

hmmm I’m not so sure about the back to back cycle. Have you done other cycles before and what’s your stats and age?


#3

[quote]Mavil161718 wrote:
hmmm I’m not so sure about the back to back cycle. Have you done other cycles before and what’s your stats and age?[/quote]
I am 22, and this would be my first cycle.


#4

Mavil, I am 22 and this would be my first cycle.


#5

[quote]Rammy92 wrote:
I’m planning on running a cycle of Dianabol (injectable) and Testosterone Propionate. I’m running the Dianabol for 3.5 weeks at 20mg a day and the Testosterone Propionate for 12 weeks at 170mg every other day. And I want to start another Cycle of just Winstrol (injectable) and Clen (not including on cycles and pct) right after my cycle without doing a pct first.
Here’s my plan
Dianabol and Testosterone Propionate Cycle:

  • Dianabol 20mg everyday for 3.5 weeks

  • Testosterone Propionate 166mg (170 to be even) every other day for 12 weeks

  • Arimidex 1mg every other day for 3.5 weeks (during Dbol portion of cycle)
    .5mg every other day for the remainder of the cycle

  • Hcg 250iu - 350iu ever other day (along with Test P) for remaining 4 weeks of cycle

Post cycle:

  • Nolvadex 6 week plan
    40mg everday for 3 weeks
    20mg everday for 3 weeks

I’m wondering if I should continue taking hcg throughout the Winstrol Cycle (to prevent Testicular Atrophy) and how much should I be taking? I also wanted to take suggestions on the length and dosage of my Winstrol cycle. Also I was planning on keeping the pct with Nolvadex the same or maybe just changing it to an 8 week plan taking 40mg everday for 4 weeks and the 20mg a day for the remaining 4 weeks.[/quote]

are your sure that’s injectable D-bol?

anyway, why not combine the d-bol, test prop and winny cycle?


#6

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Rammy92 wrote:
I’m planning on running a cycle of Dianabol (injectable) and Testosterone Propionate. I’m running the Dianabol for 3.5 weeks at 20mg a day and the Testosterone Propionate for 12 weeks at 170mg every other day. And I want to start another Cycle of just Winstrol (injectable) and Clen (not including on cycles and pct) right after my cycle without doing a pct first.
Here’s my plan
Dianabol and Testosterone Propionate Cycle:

  • Dianabol 20mg everyday for 3.5 weeks

  • Testosterone Propionate 166mg (170 to be even) every other day for 12 weeks

  • Arimidex 1mg every other day for 3.5 weeks (during Dbol portion of cycle)
    .5mg every other day for the remainder of the cycle

  • Hcg 250iu - 350iu ever other day (along with Test P) for remaining 4 weeks of cycle

Post cycle:

  • Nolvadex 6 week plan
    40mg everday for 3 weeks
    20mg everday for 3 weeks

I’m wondering if I should continue taking hcg throughout the Winstrol Cycle (to prevent Testicular Atrophy) and how much should I be taking? I also wanted to take suggestions on the length and dosage of my Winstrol cycle. Also I was planning on keeping the pct with Nolvadex the same or maybe just changing it to an 8 week plan taking 40mg everday for 4 weeks and the 20mg a day for the remaining 4 weeks.[/quote]

are your sure that’s injectable D-bol?

anyway, why not combine the d-bol, test prop and winny cycle?[/quote]
Yes I am sure it is injectable Dbol and I wanted to do one cycle solely for bulking and the other one just for cutting.


#7

What are your stats?

This cycle plan is horrible


#8

Well first of all i would focus on just getting big on a bulk and wait on the cut until you can sustain your new gains with food and such. I would run 600mg test inject 2x a week mon anf thur. Add dbol 20mg a day for 3 weeks. I would go oral dbol but i don’t know to much about that injectable dbol stuff. Then you need to PCT in order to bring your body back to homeostasis. Hold on the cutting cycle.


#9

Do a proper bulk cycle with a proper PCT. Wait a couple months after that and then run a true cut cycle. This plan falls somewhere between poor and terrible. You are 22. What are your stats. Weight, body fat, years lifting, what kind of diet?


#10

[quote]eatmorefood wrote:
Do a proper bulk cycle with a proper PCT. Wait a couple months after that and then run a true cut cycle. This plan falls somewhere between poor and terrible. You are 22. What are your stats. Weight, body fat, years lifting, what kind of diet?[/quote]

I weigh 217 pounds right now, I am 5’7", and my diet is decent right now it will improve drastically when I am on the cycle… Also I’d like to know what makes the plan bad, and how I could improve it as I am buying all my gear within a few days.


#11

[quote]Rammy92 wrote:

[quote]eatmorefood wrote:
Do a proper bulk cycle with a proper PCT. Wait a couple months after that and then run a true cut cycle. This plan falls somewhere between poor and terrible. You are 22. What are your stats. Weight, body fat, years lifting, what kind of diet?[/quote]

I weigh 217 pounds right now, I am 5’7", and my diet is decent right now it will improve drastically when I am on the cycle… Also I’d like to know what makes the plan bad, and how I could improve it as I am buying all my gear within a few days.[/quote]

Thats kind of sad you are waiting until a cycle to improve your diet. Everyyhing should be on point months or years before a cycle.


#12

Get more dbol. Run 40-50mg for 4 weeks if you plan to use it
Forget the idea of bulking and cutting in 1 cycle. It is dumb. If your diet is on point you will lean out as you put on muscle in your cycle. Otherwise you are just going to lose the majority of what you gain from your “bulk cycle.”

No winny or clen on this cycle.
Run this cycle and maintain what you gain. Then do a real cutting cycle next time.


#13

[quote]The-German wrote:
Get more dbol. Run 40-50mg for 4 weeks if you plan to use it
Forget the idea of bulking and cutting in 1 cycle. It is dumb. If your diet is on point you will lean out as you put on muscle in your cycle. Otherwise you are just going to lose the majority of what you gain from your “bulk cycle.”

No winny or clen on this cycle.
Run this cycle and maintain what you gain. Then do a real cutting cycle next time.[/quote]

Agreed


#14

[quote]The-German wrote:
Get more dbol. Run 40-50mg for 4 weeks if you plan to use it
Forget the idea of bulking and cutting in 1 cycle. It is dumb. If your diet is on point you will lean out as you put on muscle in your cycle. Otherwise you are just going to lose the majority of what you gain from your “bulk cycle.”

No winny or clen on this cycle.
Run this cycle and maintain what you gain. Then do a real cutting cycle next time.[/quote]
That was my plan. I realize I can lean out on this cycle but I was saying this cycle is mostly about gaining mass. And I was planning to wait till I come off completely and on the day I would start a pct I instead move onto winny. My questions were about my second cycle. How would go into the cycle without taking a pct? Is it okay to just wait till I come off completely and start winny on the day I would’ve started pct? How many Milligrams should I take a week? How many times should I take it a week? Should I run hcg throughout the whole Winstrol cycle? And can I use the same pct plan I was going to use after the test cycle for the Winstrol cycle?


#15

[quote]Rammy92 wrote:

[quote]The-German wrote:
Get more dbol. Run 40-50mg for 4 weeks if you plan to use it
Forget the idea of bulking and cutting in 1 cycle. It is dumb. If your diet is on point you will lean out as you put on muscle in your cycle. Otherwise you are just going to lose the majority of what you gain from your “bulk cycle.”

No winny or clen on this cycle.
Run this cycle and maintain what you gain. Then do a real cutting cycle next time.[/quote]
That was my plan. I realize I can lean out on this cycle but I was saying this cycle is mostly about gaining mass. And I was planning to wait till I come off completely and on the day I would start a pct I instead move onto winny. My questions were about my second cycle. How would go into the cycle without taking a pct? Is it okay to just wait till I come off completely and start winny on the day I would’ve started pct? How many Milligrams should I take a week? How many times should I take it a week? Should I run hcg throughout the whole Winstrol cycle? And can I use the same pct plan I was going to use after the test cycle for the Winstrol cycle?[/quote]

You don’t seem to understand. Remove the idea of your winny cycle from your brain.

Run your test and dbol cycle. Come off. Do your pct. No winny cycle in this equation. Just because you say “oh well theres 1 cycle, now ill start my other” does not mean you are going to hold onto the muscle you just gained.

You will not be producing test. You will not have artificial test in you. You will be in a perfect position to lose every bit of muscle you just created and possibly more. Do I really need to simplify this any further? It is a stupid idea, as everyone else has already stated.


#16

[quote]The-German wrote:

[quote]Rammy92 wrote:

[quote]The-German wrote:
Get more dbol. Run 40-50mg for 4 weeks if you plan to use it
Forget the idea of bulking and cutting in 1 cycle. It is dumb. If your diet is on point you will lean out as you put on muscle in your cycle. Otherwise you are just going to lose the majority of what you gain from your “bulk cycle.”

No winny or clen on this cycle.
Run this cycle and maintain what you gain. Then do a real cutting cycle next time.[/quote]
That was my plan. I realize I can lean out on this cycle but I was saying this cycle is mostly about gaining mass. And I was planning to wait till I come off completely and on the day I would start a pct I instead move onto winny. My questions were about my second cycle. How would go into the cycle without taking a pct? Is it okay to just wait till I come off completely and start winny on the day I would’ve started pct? How many Milligrams should I take a week? How many times should I take it a week? Should I run hcg throughout the whole Winstrol cycle? And can I use the same pct plan I was going to use after the test cycle for the Winstrol cycle?[/quote]

You don’t seem to understand. Remove the idea of your winny cycle from your brain.

Run your test and dbol cycle. Come off. Do your pct. No winny cycle in this equation. Just because you say “oh well theres 1 cycle, now ill start my other” does not mean you are going to hold onto the muscle you just gained.

You will not be producing test. You will not have artificial test in you. You will be in a perfect position to lose every bit of muscle you just created and possibly more. Do I really need to simplify this any further? It is a stupid idea, as everyone else has already stated.[/quote]


#17

[quote]The-German wrote:

[quote]Rammy92 wrote:

[quote]The-German wrote:
Get more dbol. Run 40-50mg for 4 weeks if you plan to use it
Forget the idea of bulking and cutting in 1 cycle. It is dumb. If your diet is on point you will lean out as you put on muscle in your cycle. Otherwise you are just going to lose the majority of what you gain from your “bulk cycle.”

No winny or clen on this cycle.
Run this cycle and maintain what you gain. Then do a real cutting cycle next time.[/quote]
That was my plan. I realize I can lean out on this cycle but I was saying this cycle is mostly about gaining mass. And I was planning to wait till I come off completely and on the day I would start a pct I instead move onto winny. My questions were about my second cycle. How would go into the cycle without taking a pct? Is it okay to just wait till I come off completely and start winny on the day I would’ve started pct? How many Milligrams should I take a week? How many times should I take it a week? Should I run hcg throughout the whole Winstrol cycle? And can I use the same pct plan I was going to use after the test cycle for the Winstrol cycle?[/quote]

You don’t seem to understand. Remove the idea of your winny cycle from your brain.

Run your test and dbol cycle. Come off. Do your pct. No winny cycle in this equation. Just because you say “oh well theres 1 cycle, now ill start my other” does not mean you are going to hold onto the muscle you just gained.

You will not be producing test. You will not have artificial test in you. You will be in a perfect position to lose every bit of muscle you just created and possibly more. Do I really need to simplify this any further? It is a stupid idea, as everyone else has already stated.[/quote]
Okay so I should just run this Test and Dbol cycle do a pct and focus on keeping as much muscle mass as possible. I want to cut as soon as possible though so should I just wait until I am completely done with my pct? And how does my pct plan look?


#18

[quote]Rammy92 wrote:

[quote]The-German wrote:

[quote]Rammy92 wrote:

[quote]The-German wrote:
Get more dbol. Run 40-50mg for 4 weeks if you plan to use it
Forget the idea of bulking and cutting in 1 cycle. It is dumb. If your diet is on point you will lean out as you put on muscle in your cycle. Otherwise you are just going to lose the majority of what you gain from your “bulk cycle.”

No winny or clen on this cycle.
Run this cycle and maintain what you gain. Then do a real cutting cycle next time.[/quote]
That was my plan. I realize I can lean out on this cycle but I was saying this cycle is mostly about gaining mass. And I was planning to wait till I come off completely and on the day I would start a pct I instead move onto winny. My questions were about my second cycle. How would go into the cycle without taking a pct? Is it okay to just wait till I come off completely and start winny on the day I would’ve started pct? How many Milligrams should I take a week? How many times should I take it a week? Should I run hcg throughout the whole Winstrol cycle? And can I use the same pct plan I was going to use after the test cycle for the Winstrol cycle?[/quote]

You don’t seem to understand. Remove the idea of your winny cycle from your brain.

Run your test and dbol cycle. Come off. Do your pct. No winny cycle in this equation. Just because you say “oh well theres 1 cycle, now ill start my other” does not mean you are going to hold onto the muscle you just gained.

You will not be producing test. You will not have artificial test in you. You will be in a perfect position to lose every bit of muscle you just created and possibly more. Do I really need to simplify this any further? It is a stupid idea, as everyone else has already stated.[/quote]
Okay so I should just run this Test and Dbol cycle do a pct and focus on keeping as much muscle mass as possible. I want to cut as soon as possible though so should I just wait until I am completely done with my pct? And how does my pct plan look?
[/quote]

When to cut really depends how quickly your body adjusts to your new weight. I would wait until PCT is complete at the minimum. PCT looks alright, could even drop it down to 20mg for 6 weeks to save some for your next cycle.

I also wouldn’t use the winny for your cut. Start looking around for other compounds that offer more in terms of cutting fat rather than just drying you out.

Will this be your first cycle?


#19

[quote]The-German wrote:

[quote]Rammy92 wrote:

[quote]The-German wrote:

[quote]Rammy92 wrote:

[quote]The-German wrote:
Get more dbol. Run 40-50mg for 4 weeks if you plan to use it
Forget the idea of bulking and cutting in 1 cycle. It is dumb. If your diet is on point you will lean out as you put on muscle in your cycle. Otherwise you are just going to lose the majority of what you gain from your “bulk cycle.”

No winny or clen on this cycle.
Run this cycle and maintain what you gain. Then do a real cutting cycle next time.[/quote]
That was my plan. I realize I can lean out on this cycle but I was saying this cycle is mostly about gaining mass. And I was planning to wait till I come off completely and on the day I would start a pct I instead move onto winny. My questions were about my second cycle. How would go into the cycle without taking a pct? Is it okay to just wait till I come off completely and start winny on the day I would’ve started pct? How many Milligrams should I take a week? How many times should I take it a week? Should I run hcg throughout the whole Winstrol cycle? And can I use the same pct plan I was going to use after the test cycle for the Winstrol cycle?[/quote]

You don’t seem to understand. Remove the idea of your winny cycle from your brain.

Run your test and dbol cycle. Come off. Do your pct. No winny cycle in this equation. Just because you say “oh well theres 1 cycle, now ill start my other” does not mean you are going to hold onto the muscle you just gained.

You will not be producing test. You will not have artificial test in you. You will be in a perfect position to lose every bit of muscle you just created and possibly more. Do I really need to simplify this any further? It is a stupid idea, as everyone else has already stated.[/quote]
Okay so I should just run this Test and Dbol cycle do a pct and focus on keeping as much muscle mass as possible. I want to cut as soon as possible though so should I just wait until I am completely done with my pct? And how does my pct plan look?
[/quote]

When to cut really depends how quickly your body adjusts to your new weight. I would wait until PCT is complete at the minimum. PCT looks alright, could even drop it down to 20mg for 6 weeks to save some for your next cycle.

I also wouldn’t use the winny for your cut. Start looking around for other compounds that offer more in terms of cutting fat rather than just drying you out.

Will this be your first cycle?[/quote]
Yes, this would be my first cycle. And thank you. You have been a lot of help. I have another question, what if instead of running a “cutting” cycle right after this bulking cycle I just do a recomp cycle keep all the calories the same and try to maintain the muscle mass gained from the first cycle while still cutting fat? I was thinking Winstrol and Masteron but I will look for other compounds that will help me more with trimming fat.


#20

You seem way too confused to be doing this. Keep your first cycle really simple and keep researching the rest. Your fundamental understanding of this pretty low, so don’t get too creative.